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sundubuman
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: seoul
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 Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 8:48 am Post subject: Question for Democrats/Left-wing types |
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How do you all see Condoleezza Rice?
A tool of white Republicans?
A traitor to her "race"?
or an amazing trailblazer?
just curious- |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 9:19 am Post subject: Re: Question for Democrats/Left-wing types |
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| sundubuman wrote: |
How do you all see Condoleezza Rice?
A tool of white Republicans?
A traitor to her "race"?
or an amazing trailblazer?
just curious- |
Lying, scheming cunt.
She went on national television and denied getting useful info from the Clinton administration. FALSE. We know the Clinton administration was serious about Bin Laden and we know that every outgoing administration does in-depth, extensive debriefing for the incoming administration.
She lied. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 9:47 am Post subject: |
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| sundubuman wrote: |
| How do you all see [insert anyone who does not subscribe to Michael Moore's worldview]? |
| BLT No-Brainer and everyone else on the far left wrote: |
Lying, scheming *beep*.
[insert anyone who does not subscribe to Michael Moore's worldview here] lied. |
Given this, Sundubuman, there is simply no reasoning with these people. My frustration with this hysteria-driven, vulgar mob is exactly why I just registered to vote as a Republican where I now reside. I wash my hands of Democratic politics, particularly the antiBush faction that seems to have taken over. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 10:18 am Post subject: |
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| I really don't think that Sundubuman intended his "have you stopped beating your wife" question as an invitation to serious discussion. He makes it sound as if any left-wing opinion of Condi Rice has to take into account her race. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
| I really don't think that Sundubuman intended his "have you stopped beating your wife" question as an invitation to serious discussion. He makes it sound as if any left-wing opinion of Condi Rice has to take into account her race. |
Sure, and on that score, there are people of whatever religion or ethnicity who will stand for or against whichever ideology you pick, so (clumsily) baiting the far left, hoping to get them to say something racist in order to "expose" hypocrisy, well, that is just the politics of usual of late...
My response was not really geared toward Sundubman's question anyway. Just branching the thread out a bit on what I think the real issue is here. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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| The OP's question trivializes Sec. Rice's personal accomplishments by focusing only on her race. |
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Hank Scorpio
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
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| Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:17 am Post subject: |
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She's none of those things. She's not a race traitor, she's not a tool of white republicans, and she's not really a trailblazer.
She's a semi-competent secretary of state (you want to see a great secretary of state, that'd be Kissinger), and a fairly incompetent national security advisor. Nothing special, by my estimation. |
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Leslie Cheswyck
Joined: 31 May 2003
Location: University of Western Chile
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| Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:32 am Post subject: |
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She's also an accomplished pianist.
But the great, unasked question is... 'Would you hit that?'
Hank, long time, no see. |
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Hank Scorpio
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
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| Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 1:15 am Post subject: |
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| Leslie Cheswyck wrote: |
Hank, long time, no see. |
Right back at ya. Yeah, long absence, been busy as all hell. My future postings will probably be a lot less frequent. Arguing with leftists makes me stabby. |
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daskalos
Joined: 19 May 2006
Location: The Road to Ithaca
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| Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| sundubuman wrote: |
| How do you all see [insert anyone who does not subscribe to Michael Moore's worldview]? |
| BLT No-Brainer and everyone else on the far left wrote: |
Lying, scheming *beep*.
[insert anyone who does not subscribe to Michael Moore's worldview here] lied. |
Given this, Sundubuman, there is simply no reasoning with these people. My frustration with this hysteria-driven, vulgar mob is exactly why I just registered to vote as a Republican where I now reside. I wash my hands of Democratic politics, particularly the antiBush faction that seems to have taken over. |
In response to the original question, I see Condi as an ideologue, far too willing to subvert the inconveniently apparent truth to her (and her bosses') vision of what should be the truth.
Gopher, during the lead up to Iraq, I too lost any faith at all in Democratic leadership, but more specifically, Democratic followership. No one on the left in the debate on invading Iraq felt it important to say anything except that GWB was an idiot, as though that was 1) news, or 2) in any way pertinent to the question at hand. Granted, if Democratic leaders had been able to divorce their wish for political power from what was actually at stake, enough of the dem voters would have followed. Sadly, too many on the left accept without question the idea that war is bad, thinking sentimentally that nothing is worse. "WAR IS NOT THE ANSWER" was the bumper sticker I saw crop up then. My thought then and still is, "Doesn't that depend on what the question is?"
More sadly still, GWB, et al, didn't have any clue as to how to fight the war they lied their way into because they relied on ideology instead of reality. But I guess that's off topic.
I too stopped registering as a Democrat in 2003, but, not being given to black&white nonsense, didn't feel it necessary to then register GOP. One party's being inept doesn't legitimize a party that I know to be wrong on most every issue, even if they were momentarily correct on a single issue, even if right for the wrong reasons, or even if they lied about the right reasons because the right reasons wouldn't have been popular.
Completely back on topic, if Condi Rice were not a black woman, it would be far easier to see her for what she is, a lickspittle, a lackey, an ideologue who is earnest but woefully wrong in most of her more earnest world views. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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| daskalos wrote: |
Gopher, during the lead up to Iraq, I too lost any faith at all in Democratic leadership, but more specifically, Democratic followership. No one on the left in the debate on invading Iraq felt it important to say anything except that GWB was an idiot, as though that was 1) news, or 2) in any way pertinent to the question at hand. Granted, if Democratic leaders had been able to divorce their wish for political power from what was actually at stake, enough of the dem voters would have followed. Sadly, too many on the left accept without question the idea that war is bad, thinking sentimentally that nothing is worse. "WAR IS NOT THE ANSWER" was the bumper sticker I saw crop up then. My thought then and still is, "Doesn't that depend on what the question is?"
More sadly still, GWB, et al, didn't have any clue as to how to fight the war they lied their way into because they relied on ideology instead of reality. But I guess that's off topic.
I too stopped registering as a Democrat in 2003, but, not being given to black&white nonsense, didn't feel it necessary to then register GOP. One party's being inept doesn't legitimize a party that I know to be wrong on most every issue, even if they were momentarily correct on a single issue, even if right for the wrong reasons, or even if they lied about the right reasons because the right reasons wouldn't have been popular. |
I see our politics pretty much coincide, indeed, almost exactly. Well said.
I registered Republican, though, not just because I refuse to register Democrat again, but, mostly for practicalities -- because I still want to participate in primary elections. I will pick and choose who I vote for, from whichever party they may come, mostly based on their own individual records and positions, etc. I also registered Republican and not Independent becuase I am beginning to find myself in agreement with some Republicans on many issues (McCain, and, before him, Powell). |
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sundubuman
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: seoul
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| Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 6:05 am Post subject: |
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I raised the question because for far too many for far too long, Republicans have been packaged as racist reactionaries.
And traditionally, Democrats had no problems pointing out the lack of "diversity" on the right.
The left-wing MSM will go to lengths to highlight Barack Obama as a harbinger of "inclusiveness" and "diversity" blah blah blah....but fail to ever see Condi's rise as anything significant.
And for the record....Condi is way more African-American than Barack....whiose only parent was a white Kansan.
The main difference being that Obama chose to use the color of his skin to advance his career, whereas Secretery Rice never did, even though she was, unlike Obama, raised in an African-American family. |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 6:42 am Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| sundubuman wrote: |
| How do you all see [insert anyone who does not subscribe to Michael Moore's worldview]? |
| BLT No-Brainer and everyone else on the far left wrote: |
Lying, scheming *beep*.
[insert anyone who does not subscribe to Michael Moore's worldview here] lied. |
Given this, Sundubuman, there is simply no reasoning with these people. My frustration with this hysteria-driven, vulgar mob is exactly why I just registered to vote as a Republican where I now reside. I wash my hands of Democratic politics, particularly the antiBush faction that seems to have taken over. |
You were always republican, just lying about it. I called it months ago, GoDumbya. |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 6:44 am Post subject: |
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| sundubuman wrote: |
I raised the question because for far too many for far too long, Republicans have been packaged as racist reactionaries.
And traditionally, Democrats had no problems pointing out the lack of "diversity" on the right.
The left-wing MSM will go to lengths to highlight Barack Obama as a harbinger of "inclusiveness" and "diversity" blah blah blah....but fail to ever see Condi's rise as anything significant.
And for the record....Condi is way more African-American than Barack....whiose only parent was a white Kansan.
The main difference being that Obama chose to use the color of his skin to advance his career, whereas Secretery Rice never did, even though she was, unlike Obama, raised in an African-American family. |
Now that is a load of racist bullshit. You're one of those "nice" whities, eh? Who isn't racist cause he has a black friend? |
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sundubuman
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: seoul
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| Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 6:54 am Post subject: |
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typical tripe. I could care less what my leader's skin tone is.
I point out facts, an idiot screams "racism'.....oy....
I would campaign for Condoleeza Rice to be our next president....I guess that makes me a typical sexist-racist Republican....
Grow up..... |
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