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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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 Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 6:59 am Post subject: |
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Hysteria-driven, vulgar mob? Oh, you mean the President who demonizes anyone not in agreement? You mean the President and Republican congress that jsut stripped huge swaths out of the Constitution with no more reaon than warmongering hate and bile as their excuse? Or do you mean the President and party that has repeatedly painted decorated veterans of our wars as weak, cowards, cut-n-runners for disagreeing with them - even those in their own party when expedient? Or do you mean the president and party that has lied to this nation about virtually EVERYTHING they have done, almost without exception, for no more reason than warmongering?
This is foolishness. Ostrich-like, you are.
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| In response to the original question, I see Condi as an ideologue, far too willing to subvert the inconveniently apparent truth to her (and her bosses') vision of what should be the truth. |
And a liar. Latest? She didn't have a meeting with Tenet about AL Queda. Hmm... gosh... seems WH records show she did. Gee, what a surprise.
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| Gopher, during the lead up to Iraq, I too lost any faith at all in Democratic leadership, but more specifically, Democratic followership. No one on the left in the debate on invading Iraq felt it important to say anything except that GWB was an idiot, as though that was 1) news, or 2) in any way pertinent to the question at hand. |
The ONLY questioning of the war was coming from Democrats and other parties. This is rubbish. That they did far less than they should ahve is absolutely true.
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| Granted, if Democratic leaders had been able to divorce their wish for political power from what was actually at stake, enough of the dem voters would have followed. Sadly, too many on the left accept without question the idea that war is bad, thinking sentimentally that nothing is worse. "WAR IS NOT THE ANSWER" was the bumper sticker I saw crop up then. My thought then and still is, "Doesn't that depend on what the question is?" |
No. War IS always bad. It is the ultimate failure. Immoral, illegal and unethical war is just worse.
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| I too stopped registering as a Democrat in 2003, but, not being given to black&white nonsense, didn't feel it necessary to then register GOP. One party's being inept doesn't legitimize a party that I know to be wrong on most every issue, even if they were momentarily correct on a single issue, even if right for the wrong reasons, or even if they lied about the right reasons because the right reasons wouldn't have been popular. |
Well, not a fool, just not very accurate in some of your assessments.
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| Completely back on topic, if Condi Rice were not a black woman, it would be far easier to see her for what she is, a lickspittle, a lackey, an ideologue who is earnest but woefully wrong in most of her more earnest world views. |
I don't think you can call her earnest. She's been caught in too many lies and obfuscations to be considered earnest. |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:13 am Post subject: |
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| sundubuman wrote: |
| The main difference being that Obama chose to use the color of his skin to advance his career, whereas Secretery Rice never did, even though she was, unlike Obama, raised in an African-American family. |
Looks like you're the one focusing on race. When has Obama ever played "the race card"? Of course he's black. What's he supposed to do, bleach his skin? He still has a 69% approval rating. Do you really think the downstaters, suburbanites, and northsiders would be supporting a "black" senator with such fervor? |
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sundubuman
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: seoul
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| Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:24 am Post subject: |
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Dude, his ENTIRE LIFE from graduate school on revolved around his "race".
And let me ask...why is he even seen as black? He is mixed-race a-la Tiger Woods (who, as a class act, never sought to highlight the color of his skin to advance his career).
He CHOSE to move to Chicago...and CHOSE to move to a black area where he could get elected. Very similar to Clinton who CHOSE to go back to Arkansas (cause he CARED about Arkansas ????) because he knew he could become governor there, and with his Chicago wife in tow, move on to bigger and better things.
Face it, Obama is an ambitious man driven by ego...and has made every wise choice to get himself to where HE WANTS TO GO.
I certainly don't underestimate this man's ambition.....but to me...he is a total fraud. |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:54 am Post subject: |
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| sundubuman wrote: |
And let me ask...why is he even seen as black? He is mixed-race a-la Tiger Woods (who, as a class act, never sought to highlight the color of his skin to advance his career). |
Because he is black. Just as Tiger Woods is considered black. Heck, Mariah Carey is considered black by some. When did Obama ever highlight the color of his skin to advance his career? Being black isn't exactly a winning move in most parts of the US.
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| He CHOSE to move to Chicago...and CHOSE to move to a black area where he could get elected. |
http://obama.senate.gov/about/
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| moved to Chicago in 1985 to work for a church-based group seeking to improve living conditions in poor neighborhoods plagued with crime and high unemployment. In 1991, Obama graduated from Harvard Law School where he was the first African American president of the Harvard Law Review. |
So he was planning the election 11 years before it happened?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama
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| Obama then left Chicago for three years to study law at Harvard University. He was elected the first African American president of the Harvard Law Review, graduating magna cum laude in 1991. Following law school Obama returned to Chicago, first supporting a voter registration drive, then working for a civil rights law firm and teaching constitutional law at the University of Chicago Law School. |
Gee, graduating magna cum laude. Being president of the Harvard Law Review. Landing a job at a Top 10 Law School. What a racial opportunist. Did you ever consider he succeeded based upon his qualifications?
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| In 1996, Obama was elected to the Illinois State Senate from the south side neighborhood of Hyde Park, in Chicago. |
In case you're not aware, Hyde Park isn't exactly a black area.
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| Face it, Obama is an ambitious man driven by ego...and has made every wise choice to get himself to where HE WANTS TO GO. |
He is ambitious. And made wise choices. How does that differ from any other successful person in the world? Okay, maybe that's not how Bush got into power. But most people actually have to work for their success. But I'd say that he's been much more driven by his desire to help people instead of his ego.
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| I certainly don't underestimate this man's ambition.....but to me...he is a total fraud. |
Sure. And that wouldn't have anything to do with his race or political affiliation now, would it? |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:58 am Post subject: |
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| What are his policy ideas? |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:40 am Post subject: |
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| BLT No-Brainer wrote: |
| You were always republican, just lying about it. I called it months ago, GoDumbya. |
For the record: Not so. I did not decide to register Republican until the Democrats showed that there is no room in the Democratic Party for Lieberman and those like him.
Until then, I had voted for (and supported) Clinton and voted against W. Bush.
You see nothing but "lies" in the world, so I am sure you will believe whatever you want, as you usually show here. In any case, look around yourself (as a Democrat, or, anarchist, whatever it is that you are) and ask yourself whether you are winning new allies or alienating potential allies.
And in elections like we have seen since 2000, I would say that your tactics would need to be geared towards winning and not alienating them. Just a thought. As for me, I am doing as much as I can, particularly with me free time/volunteer time where I live, to ensure that people with your views don't ever get anywhere near the White House...
Last edited by Gopher on Tue Oct 03, 2006 3:53 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:26 am Post subject: |
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| sundubuman wrote: |
Dude, his ENTIRE LIFE from graduate school on revolved around his "race".
And let me ask...why is he even seen as black? He is mixed-race a-la Tiger Woods (who, as a class act, never sought to highlight the color of his skin to advance his career).
He CHOSE to move to Chicago...and CHOSE to move to a black area where he could get elected. Very similar to Clinton who CHOSE to go back to Arkansas (cause he CARED about Arkansas ????) because he knew he could become governor there, and with his Chicago wife in tow, move on to bigger and better things.
Face it, Obama is an ambitious man driven by ego...and has made every wise choice to get himself to where HE WANTS TO GO.
I certainly don't underestimate this man's ambition.....but to me...he is a total fraud. |
Cite your sources, or shut up. Idiotic... Politicians maximizing their chances of winning? A man using his history to help who he can? Let me see... the good WHITE people NEED Obama to build their future?
Idiot. |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:29 am Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| BLT No-Brainer wrote: |
| You were always republican, just lying about it. I called it months ago, GoDumbya. |
For the record: Not so. I did not decide to register Republican until the Democrats showed that there is no room in the Democratic Party for Lieberman and those like him.
Until then, I had voted for (and supported) Clinton and voted against W. Bush.
You see nothing but "lies" in the world, |
I see lies where presented. I don't really care what you were. (Or CLAIM you were!) I care what you are now and have claimed to be for over a year. And I call you a liar. Then and now. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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| BLT No-Brainer wrote: |
| (Or CLAIM you were!) |
This is classic BLT "I-see-liars-everywhere!" right down to the emtional punctuation...
| BLT No-Brainer wrote: |
| I care what you are now and have claimed to be for over a year. And I call you a liar. Then and now. |
We have been through this before.
You speak thus from the safety of anonimity and from the comfort of knowing that there is much physical distance between us. Some call this "cowardice."
As for me, I strongly suspect you to be very meek in person... |
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sundubuman
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: seoul
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| Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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His only parent (that raised him) is white. (why isn't he seen as at least 1/2 white??)
Yet he willfully chose to birth his own political career within a "black" Chicago district.
at this early point in his career, He remains a total fraud.....very possibly a well-meaning fraud....
which ...does not mean he is incapable in the future of being a great leader....it simply means he had better come clean on why he made the choices he did ....
and denounce his racialism... |
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sundubuman
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: seoul
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| Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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back to Condi.....
why has she never felt the need to mention her skin color.....
whereas the Senator from Illinois has more or less EMPLOYED the hue of his epidermis for his ENTIRE career????
answer
one is Republican
and the other
is a Democrat. |
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sundubuman
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: seoul
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| Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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which means Condi thinks her image/reputation will be constructed by responses to her actions....
whereas Obama KNOWS his image/reputation will be built upon his "African heritage", which he has already used extensively. |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| BLT No-Brainer wrote: |
| (Or CLAIM you were!) |
This is classic BLT "I-see-liars-everywhere!" right down to the emtional punctuation...
| BLT No-Brainer wrote: |
| I care what you are now and have claimed to be for over a year. And I call you a liar. Then and now. |
We have been through this before.
You speak thus from the safety of anonimity and from the comfort of knowing that there is much physical distance between us. Some call this "cowardice."
As for me, I strongly suspect you to be very meek in person... |
This is asinine in the extreme. Exactly like the conversation with the idiot that calls their opposite number in a disagreement hardheaded or stubborn while not changing their own point of view any more than their opposite number.
I called this supposed "change of heart" long ago, did I not? How did I do that if you were not a liar in the first place? What, I knew before you did? Bull. Liar? Indeed. There is one among us, but it is not I. I have not abandoned my ideals for the safety of fear-mongering cowards as you have. (As if you actually had. You were a plant from the beginning.) You claim to hold democratic ideals, but (supposedly) run to the party that is the least democratic group of people in the history of this nation? Who the *beep* do you think you are fooling?
You're a liar, plain and simple.
Oh, and for the record, threatening physical violence is a crime. That's your second offense. I suggest you get some counseling before you end up in jail, GoDumbya.
Back to your sandbox, straw and bailing wire, little man.
Last edited by EFLtrainer on Tue Oct 03, 2006 1:32 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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| sundubuman wrote: |
back to Condi.....
why has she never felt the need to mention her skin color.....
whereas the Senator from Illinois has more or less EMPLOYED the hue of his epidermis for his ENTIRE career????
answer
one is Republican
and the other
is a Democrat. |
Might you back up this racist claptrap with... um... evidence? Links? Etc.? Or are you not aware that slander is a crime in most countries? And are you truly stupid enough to think Rice has never used her race to advantage? Exactly how old is she and how many benefits did she get growing up in the era of Affirmative Action? Or did she mark all those boxes "other?" Eh?
Foolishness, as ever. |
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