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		sundubuman
 
 
  Joined: 04 Feb 2003 Location: seoul
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				 Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 8:23 am    Post subject: Civil War in France? | 
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				BTW, don;t expect to see CNN/BBC covering these ongoing riots, or the ones in Belgium, they are too busy salivating over the Foley "scandal", which will soon be proven to be another manufactured bit of desperate dem. propaganda (a la Valerie Plame, Bush army memos etc...)
 
 
 
 
 
Muslims are waging civil war against us, claims police union
 
 
By David Rennie, Europe Correspondent
 
(Filed: 05/10/2006)
 
 
Radical Muslims in France's housing estates are waging an undeclared "intifada" against the police, with violent clashes injuring an average of 14 officers each day.
 
 	
 
Nicolas Sarkozy
 
Interior minister Nicolas Sarkozy was warned of an 'intifada'
 
 
As the interior ministry said that nearly 2,500 officers had been wounded this year, a police union declared that its members were "in a state of civil war" with Muslims in the most depressed "banlieue" estates which are heavily populated by unemployed youths of north African origin.
 
 
It said the situation was so grave that it had asked the government to provide police with armoured cars to protect officers in the estates, which are becoming no-go zones.
 
 
The number of attacks has risen by a third in two years. Police representatives told the newspaper Le Figaro that the "taboo" of attacking officers on patrol has been broken.
 
 
Instead, officers � especially those patrolling in pairs or small groups � faced attacks as soon as they tried to arrest locals.
 
 
Senior officers insisted that the problem was essentially criminal in nature, with crime bosses on the estates fighting back against tough tactics.
 
 
The interior minister, Nicolas Sarkozy, who is also the leading centre-Right candidate for the presidency, has sent heavily equipped units into areas with orders to regain control from drug smuggling gangs and other organised crime rings. Such aggressive raids were "disrupting the underground economy in the estates", one senior official told Le Figaro.
 
 
However, not all officers on the ground accept that essentially secular interpretation. Michel Thoomis, the secretary general of the hardline Action Police trade union, has written to Mr Sarkozy warning of an "intifada" on the estates and demanding that officers be given armoured cars in the most dangerous areas.
 
 
He said yesterday: "We are in a state of civil war, orchestrated by radical Islamists. This is not a question of urban violence any more, it is an intifada, with stones and Molotov cocktails. You no longer see two or three youths confronting police, you see whole tower blocks emptying into the streets to set their 'comrades' free when they are arrested."
 
 
He added: "We need armoured vehicles and water cannon. They are the only things that can disperse crowds of hundreds of people who are trying to kill police and burn their vehicles."
 
 
However, Gerard Demarcq, of the largest police unions, Alliance, dismissed talk of an "intifada" as representing the views of only a minority.
 
 
Mr Demarcq said that the increased attacks on officers were proof that the policy of "retaking territory" from criminal gangs was working.
 
 
Mayors in the worst affected suburbs, which saw weeks of riots and car-burning a year ago, have expressed fears of a vicious circle, as attacks by locals lead the police to harden their tactics, further increasing resentment.
 
 
As if to prove that point, there were angry reactions in the western Paris suburb of Les Mureaux following dawn raids in search of youths who attacked a police unit on Sunday. The raids led to one arrest. They followed clashes on Sunday night when scores of youths attacked seven officers who had tried to arrest a man for not wearing his seat belt while driving. That driver refused to stop, and later rammed a police car trying to block his path.
 
 
The mayor of Les Mureaux, Francois Garay, criticised aggressive police tactics that afterwards left "the people on the ground to pick up the pieces".
 
 
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		thepeel
 
 
  Joined: 08 Aug 2004
 
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				 Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 8:42 am    Post subject:  | 
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				| They will all be expelled. | 
			 
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		sundubuman
 
 
  Joined: 04 Feb 2003 Location: seoul
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				 Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 8:53 am    Post subject:  | 
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				It's strange, but I tend to think you may be right.  
 
 
Europe is composed of a lot of ancient tribes......this shit could get f-ugly. | 
			 
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		sundubuman
 
 
  Joined: 04 Feb 2003 Location: seoul
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				 Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 8:57 am    Post subject:  | 
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				Who'da thought 30-35 percent of Jews would be supporting Vlaams?  Oh how times change.
 
 
Nothing like massive Islamic immigration to make Europeans start to love the Jews......
 
				
 
Campaigning
 
 
Photo: AFP
 
Filip Dewinter: Natural partner? Photo: AFP
 
 
 
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# Sabra and Shatila Massacre
 
# Operation Accountability
 
# Operation Grapes of Wrath
 
 
 
	
 
  	
 
 
Belgium: Far-right party calls for Jewish support
 
 
Candidate from reputedly xenophobic party Vlaams Belang appeals to Jewish vote in Antwerp, saying Jewish community natural partner �against the main enemy of the moment, radical Islamic fundamentalism.� Party expected to win one-third of votes in regional elections Sunday
 
 
Ynet
 
Published: 	10.05.06, 17:30
 
 
One of the most successful extreme-Right leaders in Europe, Filip Dewinter, recently called on the Jewish public to join his campaign against radical Islam and support his party.
 
 
 
 
Dewinter heads Belgium's Vlaams Belang party, which advocates strict limits on immigration and has been denounced as xenophobic.
 
 
 
 
The politician called Antwerp�s large Jewish community a natural partner �against the main enemy of the moment, radical Islamic fundamentalism,� according to a report in The Independent.
 
 
 
 
Vlaams Belang is expected to win at least one-third of the votes in regional elections in Belgium, which take place on Sunday. The expected success at the ballot box will make it the largest party in Antwerp, a city plagued by racial tensions and which has experienced race-related riots and murders this year. Antwerp has large Jewish and Muslim populations living side by side.
 
 
 
 
 
Dewinter rose to power by advocating strict limits on immigration, including the deportation of immigrants who fail to integrate. Recently he called for radical Islam to be denied official recognition and for its supporters to be denied Belgian nationality and possibly social security payments, according to The Independent.
 
 
 
 
"If they won't accept our way of life, if they won't accept those principles which are very clear and very necessary for Western democracy, I don't think we have to recognize Islam as an official religion in our country,� Dewinter said recently
 
 
 
 
Vlaams Belang (the Flemish Interest) also supports independence for Flanders, the northern, Dutch-speaking half of Belgium. Up until now, the party has been sidelined from the Belgian political arena by a coalition of center parties, but the recent political climate in Belgium has presented the party with an opportunity to grasp more political muscle.
 
 
 
 
"In the Jewish community we have about 30 to 35 per cent of the vote," Dewinter said.
 
 
 
 
Six years ago a predecessor party to the Vlaams Belang, called Vlaams Blok, won a third of the vote in Antwerp, but it was disbanded after a court ruled that it incited racial hatred. The new party won 24 percent of the vote in regional elections two years ago. | 
			 
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		thepeel
 
 
  Joined: 08 Aug 2004
 
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				 Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:35 am    Post subject:  | 
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				The will all be expelled.  I don't say that because it is either what I want or don't want, I don't have much of an opinion other than Europeans are naive beyond all worldly descriptions, but I say it because it is true.
 
 
Europeans are not tolerant people.  They spent the last thousand years killing everybody they could get their tick-infested hands on and BAM! they changed?  
 
 
The situation now is one where the muslims are busy raping, burning, rioting and the like (riots in England, Belgium and France in the past week alone) and the Euro media and terrified elites point at America and say "Look, Bad!"  Just as the Arab governments do with the Jews, the Euros do with the Americans.  
 
 
The Muslims will be expelled, and it won't be pretty.  All that is missing is the spark.  An assignation, a sustained time of riots in non-muslim areas or the like.  I don't think it will be a bomb or other similar Al-Islam terrorist threat, as those are far too isolated.  No, it will be an escalation of the quiet war they are waging already. | 
			 
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		happeningthang
 
  
  Joined: 26 Apr 2003
 
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				 Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:49 am    Post subject:  | 
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				An interesting article from the City Journal  an American urban-policy magazine. Leaning towards conservative, it seems a good encapsulation of what's been going on in Paris. Long article- well worth it if you're interesting in learning more than what's fevering Sandub's brow today (little tip...Muslims get a mention, but not quite as hysterical and shrill a mention, as the one emanating from San-eek a muslim- dub's mouth).
 
 
The Barbarians at the Gates of Paris
 
Theodore Dalrymple 2002
 
 
http://www.city-journal.org/html/12_4_the_barbarians.html
 
 
 
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	  But among the third of the population of the cit�s that is of North African Muslim descent, there is an option that the French, and not only the French, fear. For imagine yourself a youth in Les Tarterets or Les Musiciens, intellectually alert but not well educated, believing yourself to be despised because of your origins by the larger society that you were born into, permanently condemned to unemployment by the system that contemptuously feeds and clothes you, and surrounded by a contemptible nihilistic culture of despair, violence, and crime. Is it not possible that you would seek a doctrine that would simultaneously explain your predicament, justify your wrath, point the way toward your revenge, and guarantee your salvation, especially if you were imprisoned? Would you not seek a �worthwhile� direction for the energy, hatred, and violence seething within you, a direction that would enable you to do evil in the name of ultimate good? It would require only a relatively few of like mind to cause havoc. Islamist proselytism flourishes in the prisons of France (where 60 percent of the inmates are of immigrant origin), as it does in British prisons; and it takes only a handful of Zacharias Moussaouis to start a conflagration.
 
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Doesn't mean  all the Paris rioters are muslim, doesn't mean that all disenfranchised are muslim. It means the gap between rich and poor in France is BIG, and the disenfranchised are easy pickings for Islamic terrorists.
 
 
If I remember correctly some projects in American cities, or Estates in Engerland aren't exactly filled with people loving the cops either.
  Last edited by happeningthang on Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:08 am; edited 1 time in total | 
			 
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		thepeel
 
 
  Joined: 08 Aug 2004
 
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				 Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:56 am    Post subject:  | 
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				| All politics are local, it is true.  In France, unemployment is much harder on immigrant communities than it is the 'French'.  But the French aren't going to create the kind of economy that will employ the immigrants and will need a very good reason not to kick them all out.  It may be a distraction from their failed socialism, I don't know, but the end result is quite certain.. | 
			 
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		W.T.Carl
 
 
  Joined: 16 Jan 2003
 
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				 Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 1:42 pm    Post subject:  | 
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				| Le Pen will be the next president of France. THEN THING WILL GET UGLY! | 
			 
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		ddeubel
 
  
  Joined: 20 Jul 2005
 
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				 Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:31 pm    Post subject:  | 
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				How many of you have been to France, lived in France, been there recently? Instead of reading such inflammatory (and the French are noted for it) reports and forming your own doomsday theories -- why not see with your own eyes or atleast link/read what civil society in general sees there?
 
 
That is the problem with you racists. You only read the edges and conclude from there. It is as if you are at the edge of a cliff, looking down. All you can see is the big fall. The jump. You have know idea of the meadow at your back.
 
 
I was in France last month. Yes, there is a problem with youth, les banlieux, la haine.  Very little to do with Islam and much to do with ghettoization and poverty. French society has to do something about the youth and the associated poverty and anger. But French society remains civil, is NOT in flames and there is much togetherness not usually reported, between Muslim and French. The history of the two has brought them common bonds, however unfortuate that history is.
 
 
Once again, you guys are just idiots crying wolf.  Once again I say , read something more thought filled, put down your tabloids and Aryan nation newsletters.
 
 
DD | 
			 
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		Pligganease
 
  
  Joined: 14 Sep 2004 Location: The deep south...
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				 Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 5:04 pm    Post subject:  | 
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	  | ddeubel wrote: | 
	 
	
	  | Once again I say , read something more thought filled, put down your tabloids and Aryan nation newsletters. | 
	 
 
 
 
Once again I say, pick up a grammar book, contains interesting facts on how, writing sentences improve.  Cannot really comprehend.  You don't sound intelligent. | 
			 
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		thepeel
 
 
  Joined: 08 Aug 2004
 
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				 Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:07 pm    Post subject:  | 
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	  | ddeubel wrote: | 
	 
	
	  How many of you have been to France, lived in France, been there recently? Instead of reading such inflammatory (and the French are noted for it) reports and forming your own doomsday theories -- why not see with your own eyes or atleast link/read what civil society in general sees there?
 
 
That is the problem with you racists. You only read the edges and conclude from there. It is as if you are at the edge of a cliff, looking down. All you can see is the big fall. The jump. You have know idea of the meadow at your back.
 
 
I was in France last month. Yes, there is a problem with youth, les banlieux, la haine.  Very little to do with Islam and much to do with ghettoization and poverty. French society has to do something about the youth and the associated poverty and anger. But French society remains civil, is NOT in flames and there is much togetherness not usually reported, between Muslim and French. The history of the two has brought them common bonds, however unfortuate that history is.
 
 
Once again, you guys are just idiots crying wolf.  Once again I say , read something more thought filled, put down your tabloids and Aryan nation newsletters.
 
 
DD | 
	 
 
 
 
When in France, did you speak to any frogs?  I've spoken with plenty and their hatred of the muslims was quite clear.  Almost as bad as the Dutch.  They openly talk about kicking them all out.  If you put any two "Europeans" in a room together eventually the topic of conversation will turn to "them" and how to get them "out".  Being naive doesn't help your cause.  Or maybe you are just such a PC tighta$s that nobody will tell your their real opinion for fear of having to sit through a long rant about "I've lived blah blah!" and "Like the late-great Korean hooker Lee Kim Cow wrote".  If you are half as intolerable in real life as you are online...
 
 
And Islam isn't a race.  But maybe I'd better put a black dude as my avatar, even tho I'm a white dude, and then run around with my ball in my hand calling everybody racists.  Then I'd be an authority on racism, like DD. | 
			 
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		happeningthang
 
  
  Joined: 26 Apr 2003
 
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				 Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 7:59 pm    Post subject:  | 
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	  | BJWD wrote: | 
	 
	
	  
 
When in France, did you speak to any frogs?  I've spoken with plenty and their hatred of the muslims was quite clear.  Almost as bad as the Dutch.  They openly talk about kicking them all out.  If you put any two "Europeans" in a room together eventually the topic of conversation will turn to "them" and how to get them "out".  Being naive doesn't help your cause.  Or maybe you are just such a PC tighta$s that nobody will tell your their real opinion for fear of having to sit through a long rant about "I've lived blah blah!" and "Like the late-great Korean hooker Lee Kim Cow wrote".  If you are half as intolerable in real life as you are online...
 
 
And Islam isn't a race.  But maybe I'd better put a black dude as my avatar, even tho I'm a white dude, and then run around with my ball in my hand calling everybody racists.  Then I'd be an authority on racism, like DD. | 
	 
 
 
 
Did you call them frogs when you met them? It's amazing how like minded people can find each other, isn't it? | 
			 
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		ddeubel
 
  
  Joined: 20 Jul 2005
 
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				 Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 8:21 pm    Post subject:  | 
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	  | When in France, did you speak to any frogs? I've spoken with plenty and their hatred of the muslims was quite clear. Almost as bad as the Dutch. They openly talk about kicking them all out.  | 
	 
 
 
 
Keep on gunning at me with the insults. I call people who would throw out gross generalizations as "racists". For the most part, those who detest Muslims do so "racially".  If the guy is white and lives normally beside you, yet practices Islam, most of the type posting on here, have no problem with that. In France, it is racist, it is how they look / stand out. 
 
 
The French are at times openly anti-Muslim but also at time openly Muslim loving. Depends. Not as one sided or even as clear as you suggest.  Also, a lot of the name calling is done in stereotype, unlearned and a reflex...
 
 
I talked to a lot of people in France, Le Penists and champagne socialists like Chirac alike. I speak French and have lived there previously and so know a bit of the society. Also spoke to a lot of Muslims. The problem in France is complicated and not unlike Holland. There is a lot of bigotry towards "arabs" but at the same time, a lot of friendship. It is complicated. In general, when people have no interaction with Islam or those from Islamic countries, they are hateful, and scream for them to get out. when they have friends and learn of them and their community, never happens. Sometimes you have the bizarre cases where they say their Arab or Muslim friends are "exceptions" and in any case, not typical . hahahahahaha. Shows how shallow and very superficial in regards to intelligence and reality, the bigotry really is. 
 
 
I stand by the proposition that yes, there are strains in French society. But it can withstand these and the major problem is economic. Many French politicians have begun seeing the real problem of how they shepherded all the immigrants into enclaves which fostered little interaction with the larger French society. They are beginning by tearing down these projects. 
 
 
Civility will win and at the end of the day, French society, apart from the minority and virulent right wing, are civil and worldly. This is their strength.  Let's not forget -- most French have in some way, big time connections to Muslim parts of the world, given their history. 
 
 
DD | 
			 
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		ddeubel
 
  
  Joined: 20 Jul 2005
 
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				 Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 8:28 pm    Post subject:  | 
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	  | Once again I say, pick up a grammar book, contains interesting facts on how, writing sentences improve. Cannot really comprehend. You don't sound intelligent. | 
	 
 
 
 
whatever. 
 
 
If you can't follow a line or train of thought, IF you can't string a series of thoughts together (neurally) and if you can't imagine metaphor or allusion. 
 
 
Whatever. 
 
 
As I said, you need a better diet. I don't come online to write scholarly or even to cross every t. I come on to let my thoughts appear. If you can't see them, says more for you than myself -- given that I am confident in my own education and in my own years of editorial work.  
 
 
Problem is like your avatar, you are so wrapped up in your notion of what should be, you can't see what ought to be....(but of course, this metaphor escapes you , as does "the barbarians are at the gates" of the article.....please tell me the etymology of that phrase???).
 
 
DD | 
			 
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		ChuckECheese
 
  
  Joined: 20 Jul 2006
 
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				 Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 8:57 pm    Post subject:  | 
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	  | ddeubel wrote: | 
	 
	
	  
 
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	  | Once again I say, pick up a grammar book, contains interesting facts on how, writing sentences improve. Cannot really comprehend. You don't sound intelligent. | 
	 
 
 
 
whatever. 
 
 
If you can't follow a line or train of thought, IF you can't string a series of thoughts together (neurally) and if you can't imagine metaphor or allusion. 
 
 
Whatever. 
 
 
As I said, you need a better diet. I don't come online to write scholarly or even to cross every t. I come on to let my thoughts appear. If you can't see them, says more for you than myself -- given that I am confident in my own education and in my own years of editorial work.  
 
 
Problem is like your avatar, you are so wrapped up in your notion of what should be, you can't see what ought to be....(but of course, this metaphor escapes you , as does "the barbarians are at the gates" of the article.....please tell me the etymology of that phrase???).
 
 
DD | 
	 
 
 
 
Problem with you DD is that you speak like politicians who are out of touch with the real world, and never offering direct answers or explanations to the most of your shady posts.  If someone ask you, "Are you a pvssy?", the you would most likely answer,  "I am what I am and you're a racist because you asked me if I am a pvssy."
 
 
I highly recommend that you re-educate yourself in speaking and writing proper and clear English.  If I were grading you're writings, you would definately get "F-" in my class.
 
 
Chuck E | 
			 
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