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Big_Bird · Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:28 am Post subject: Take off the veil, says Straw

Take off the veil, says Straw - to immediate anger from Muslims

Cabinet minister opens debate with claim that veil is a symbol of separation

Matthew Taylor and Vikram Dodd
Friday October 6, 2006
The Guardian

Former foreign secretary Jack Straw. Photograph: Virginia Mayo/AP

Jack Straw provoked anger and indignation among broad sections of the Muslim community yesterday after he encouraged Islamic women to stop wearing veils covering their face, saying the practice hindered community relations.

The former home secretary said the full veil - known as a niqab - made "better, positive relations between the two communities more difficult".

He added it was "such a visible statement of separation and of difference".

For full article: http://politics.guardian.co.uk/labour/story/0,,1888872,00.html

On the other hand · Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Location: I walk along the avenue

Junior · Joined: 18 Nov 2005 Location: the eye

Looks like someone has adjitated the killer bee colony again.

Neil · Joined: 02 Jan 2004 Location: Tokyo

He's got a point IMO and his constituency (Blackburn) has 25000 muslims so he's is more aware of cultural sensitivities than most.

Most muslim women in the UK don't wear veils. It's mainly FOB (fresh off the boaters) that do but maybe they are behind the times in Northern mill towns compared to London, so perhaps some muslim women wear tents up there and indigenous proles wear flat caps, breed whippets and race pigeons.

Of course radicals of both sides will try to blow it out of all proportion to score political points but 99.9% of people in the UK either think he is right or couldn't give a toss.

freethought · Joined: 13 Mar 2005

Straw's comments are totally accurate. If you're speaking to someone and they are hiding their face behind a veil, or a mask or whatever it does not put the person without the veil/mask at ease. And so when people 'fail to integrate' into British society, the fact they are wearing a veil likely has a lot to do with it.

All that said, I think he didn't go far enough, in expressing that the entire thing is a sign of oppression of women.

i_teach_esl · Joined: 07 Sep 2006 Location: baebang, asan/cheonan

i think it's up to the muslim community weather or not they wear the veil. but i see where straw is coming from and has every right to express his opinion.

i rather like the veils, i think they're pretty. just me, tho.

dulouz · Joined: 04 Feb 2003 Location: Uranus

The veil-masks must be taken off post haste because masks are offensive to Western culture and they make Westerners feel unwelcome. We should be sensitive to the cultural needs of people and not caustic toward them. Masks are ussually signs of evil doers, evil doings and disease. I think veils look unattractive myself.

- Whats the difference between a truckload of dead babies and a truckload of bowling balls?

- You can unload a truckload of dead babies with a pitch fork.

Laughing

Adventurer · Joined: 28 Jan 2006

i_teach_esl · Joined: 07 Sep 2006 Location: baebang, asan/cheonan

yes, i know, i am talking about the burka.

seriously, i like them. im not muslim. i know little of islam. firm feminist myself. i dont know why, but i just like them. but hey, others have a right to not like them. but i dont think there's a right to demand women NOT wear them. it's an issue that is for the muslim community.

"I thought by telling a woman that she needs to be covered up, we're telling her that she's basically unworthy," she said. "But I don't think that's how Muslims view it. I think they view it as one so worthy that she can't be looked upon." http://www.easternecho.com/cgi-bin/story.cgi?11039 hmm, i think i agree.

gang ah jee · Joined: 14 Jan 2003 Location: city of paper

ddeubel · Joined: 20 Jul 2005

I find this so stupid!

So you can wear a skimpy string bikini down Fleet street and even see through dresses but a burka and you are evil!

Governments should stay out of the bedrooms and the dressing rooms (to paraphrase a previous astute commentator. ).

You do not change social norms through such banning and draconian laws. You change cultural and religious behaviour through the wider culture at large and through example and tolerance. Laws such as this (which have nothing to do with criminality, protecting people) are but political footballs. Shame on the politicians that play with them and may the get punted in the head!

DD

bucheon bum · Joined: 16 Jan 2003

chasingdreams · Joined: 10 Jan 2006 Location: Seoul

For quite some time the British government has tiptoed around the Muslim community in total fear of "upsetting the boat" and being labelled as a racist power.

They have bent over backwards to accommodate and integrate the Muslim community - even to the extent that they have introduced ludicrous and petty rulings - take this...

http://www.themoderatevoice.com/posts/1130824817.shtml

It's irrelevant whether I like the veils or not, or whether I think Straw's comments are right - I'm simply glad that someone has had the balls to voice a controversial opinion - about time!

Novernae · Joined: 02 Mar 2005

thepeel · Joined: 08 Aug 2004

BB, I see you have started to take interest in muslim related issues.

I think we should look at this issue, and the comments made about muslim ghettos, as an attempt to prepare the muslims for a larger push, by the state, into the lives on the muslims. The UK is about to get much more aggressive in her dealing with them.

While I (shockingly) agree with dd that this isn't the proper role of the state, I think he is a tad crazy when suggesting that the burka will come off if only we "tolerate" it.

muslims need to be criticised. They need to know that that which they believe is absurd and comical. No respect for adults with imaginary friends. Respect is earned.