Korean Job Discussion Forums

[thepeel]

[jaganath69]

I favour a variant of number 2, although I disagree with the premise of number one that the endgame is cultural genocide. White western post-industrial/modern culture to me lies beyond definition and transcends the boundaries of old ethno-nationalist identities. It is, however, bound by liberal maxims of near unbounded freedoms policed by the notions of non-violence. These are the assimilational values that must be hammered home.

Enough of the theory, practicalities matter.

Although as a 'classical liberal' (read not liberal in the US sense of the word) I favour parental choice in areas of education, civics classes emphasising the liberal traditions of the west need to form a core part of cirriculum. This doesn't mean whitewashing history, taking an uncritical view of the things that the west have done in the wider world, but it must be placed in context that the freest of societies are based on pluralism in almost all areas of society. This should be mandatory for both private and public students.

Second, economics matter. Take a look at the most successful of multi-cultural states, Singapore. I know a great deal of social engineering has gone on, but it can also be argued that productively employed and prosperous people enjoy little incentive to engage in anti-social behaviour. To that end, France in particular must make the difficult choice of ending the ridiculous social-democratic legislation that keeps unemployment high and discourages participation in the workforce. Work for welfare with stiff penalties for those who fail to fulfill their obligations in those countries where large immigrant families continue to rely on handouts would be a good way to go too (remember Abu Hamza and his dole-drawing flock?).

Third, tougher law enforcement. End no-go areas, even if the initial pain of more rioting has to be endured. Show people that attacking law enforcement will result in real penalties, boot camps for the youngest offenders that will teach job skills as well as discipline.

Fourth, restrict immigration to skilled migrants. Temporary visas for shortfalls in unskilled labour which may be tied to the prospect of PR or citizenship for those showing an understanding of the language and principles of western society. Additional family immigration to be tied to good behaviour and restrictions on drawing benefit. Make others responsible for their kindred's actions.

That is just a start, interested to know what you think.

[thepeel]

del.

[Adventurer]

This topic is a very difficult subject. It is difficult to engage in such a discussion without setting off a psychological land-mine in someone's mind.
We do know that there are 1 billion Muslims in the world.
England has mostly Muslims from South Asia with Mediterranean Muslims from Syria, Lebanon, and Palestine and also North Africa's Maghreb being a minority. The South Asian minority is less moderate when it comes the North Africans to some extent based on polls I have seen. I do think there are more secular Morroccan Muslims when compared to those of Pakistani descent. However, the killing of a descendant of Van Gogh in the Netherlands is part of the reason why some Europeans are angry at this religious minority. We can go into reasons why Muslims are angry at Europe as well.
Germany has a large Turkish minority. The Turkish have a large secular population and hail from a country that is officially secular. The basis of law is not the Sharia. With that said, there are still some Turks, especially from Eastern Turkey, who are not very secular. But, I think, by in large, the Turkish immigrants are more educated as they come from a country with a much higher literacy rate than the people from Tangiers. The Turks also have an economy which is much healthier. That has a salutory affect on a population's collective mental state. It also did help the Turkish that a former Prime Minister of Germany (Schroeder) had a daughter in law of Turkish origin.
Then you have the Bosnian and Albanian Muslims who are also part of the equation. The Bosnians are generally know to be moderate and sometimes viewed to be more moderate than their
Christian Orthodox counterparts. They would not have problems in integrating as they are generally quite moderate, and, if you think appearance has something to do with it, they also would not stand out
based on appearance in France. We also have not heard of any Bosnians
volunteering to fight in Iraq as we have heard regarding Morroccan and South Asian citizens of Europe. The majority of Muslim Europeans, though, object to their co-religionists going to Iraq to fight a war.
How do you see it to be feasible to expel 5% of the French population? I suppose it can be done in theory, even though it is reprehensible. France did once expel most of its Protestant minority.
The French do have concerns regarding integrating their Muslim minority, but they also have concerns regarding discrimination and finding employment worthy of a citizen's qualifications regardless of race.

Your remarks, gentlemen...

[thepeel]

Clearly, Adventurer, you are largely right. While I would have a few small disagreements with your assment of global Islam, I think that for the most part you are right (though, I'm not an expert, of course).

Not all muslims are the same, and not all have the same likelihood of assimilation. This is key, in a perfect world. But Europe today, as your alluded to in your first sentence, is not a place that this very serious conversation could happen. PC does not allow them to openly talk about this, and to the extent that they try to, muslim death threats are pulling up the slack. This is creating a climate of veiled hate in the typical European. It is an explosive context, for both sides.

The logistics of it, well, I don't know. I don't know if it will happen but if it did I think it would likely be in the context of an assassination or terrorist attack and we may be surprised with how quickly the European governments would be to act.

A classmate of mine who is Moroccan-Dutch is quite open about these things. He neither wants to return to Europe nor call himself European. He has very little faith in the relations between the two groups and does find some truth in my assertion that they may all be going 'home'.

[Junior]

[Adventurer]

[Manner of Speaking]

Adventurer,
That was a very well-written response; my complements. And I agree, painting all Mexicans or Moslems or whomever one way is nothing more than prejudice.

[thepeel]

http://austrianaddiction.rationalmind.net/archives/2006/01/

[ChimpumCallao]

[Adventurer]