|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
The Lemon
Joined: 11 Jan 2003
|
 Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 1:59 am Post subject: Vista and "Piracy" - an ad for Ubuntu |
 |
|
Vista, Piracy and Ubuntu - a Lemon Soapbox
Microsoft has benefited from those hundreds of millions of users running unauthorized copies of Windows, like me.
We could have been running Linux, or could have been hooked instead by OS/2 in the early 90s. And though Microsoft got no money from our unauthorized systems in license fees, Microsoft has the OS market cornered because of us - and its gets plenty of license fees from preinstalled machines, institutions and corporations who chose Windows precisely because of its market dominance.
Which is why I think this (cnn.com= "Microsoft Warns Software Pirates" - October 5th) is a very bad idea for Microsoft.
In the last two years, Microsoft has been slowly making moves to hit back at unauthorized users, who it has tried to label "pirates". Sneaky Windows Updates have installed "you're a thief!!" pop-ups in the system tray, and WGA has made key updates unavailable. Morally, Microsoft is in the right - why should they support freeloaders?
But in the big picture, it might not be smart for them.
I believe they're making an incorrect calculation. They believe that shutting off Windows for the freeloaders will convert them into paying customers. And that might have been a fair assumption, except for one factor: Ubuntu, the most popular Linux distribution, which gets better with each release. The new release, 6.10, comes out this month. I predict Microsoft's strict stance is about to create millions of OS refugees. Market share for Windows will shrink dramatically.
You've probably heard all this before. Linux has been "almost but not quite ready" to replace Windows since the late 90s. It has never been as stoopidly easy to use as Windows, and the average user doesn't want to futz with typing arcane commands into terminal windows to fix things that should have worked the first time. Nor should they have to. That's been the Linux experience up until now. But the latest Ubuntu release changes this.
Over the last year I've been slowly migrating away from Windows, not because I dislike it or am on a jihad against Microsoft, but because I could see Microsoft is moving to cut off people like me with only two legal copies of Windows on four machines. I wanted to prepare myself for a non-Microsoft world.
Over the year I've grown to rely on the stability and customization of Ubuntu. I've gotten used to being able to legally download any application I needed, automatically, just by typing in the genre of application in a box - "hey computer, go get a good partition manager like Partition Magic", for example, and it just happens.
I take for granted that my OS will have regular, free updated versions every six months - none of this five-years-between-versions thing. My main machine is a dual-boot XP/Ubuntu system, and I rarely boot into XP anymore.
I believe the software I use is of higher quality and reliability because it was designed and maintained by people who actually wanted to create it, not because they had to.
[Screenshots: 1. Laptop, extremely fast @ PIII/700 - - - - 2. Desktop @ Athlon 2500 ]
I Ubuntuized a lab of computers in our school library two months ago, and the students didn't seem to mind the switch-over at all. I made big icons for "Browser" and for "Word Processor", made sure pen drives worked automatically, and everyone was happy. And the guys who used to delight in vandalizing the Windows machines have had to learn Linux in order to cause mischief with the Ubuntu boxes - and there's not much they can do to them, really. The result: 1000 kids are headed into the workforce as comfortable with Linux as they are with Windows. And I no longer have to deal with spyware-infected machines.
Here in Southeast Asia, "pirated" Windows copies run the governments and the companies. If Microsoft shuts off future Windows versions to these institutions, what are they more likely to do - spend millions of dollars in license fees, or use a free, legal, and in many ways superior alternative? The Windows world is bound to shrink.
Those of you in unlimited bandwidth developed world nations can download an Ubuntu CD and burn it in about 10 minutes. Or, you can get Ubuntu to send you some CDs, for FREE. Just go here and fill in your address, and in a few weeks, shiny round Ubuntu OS CDs will appear at your door.
It coexists on a dual-boot basis with a Windows machine quite well, but make a backup of your Windows system first in case something goes wrong. But try it.
"R U LEGIT"? Yes, but it's not going to benefit Microsoft any, and it won't cost me a penny. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
jazblanc77
Joined: 22 Feb 2004
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 3:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Very good post! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Demophobe
Joined: 17 May 2004
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 6:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
Meh.
If the fact that you can't use a pirated copy of Windows will to lead you to Linux, that isn't bad news for MS.
You never were really good news for them, so its just as well you go to a free OS, since that is all you are looking for anyhow. All they want is for you to decide one way or the other, and pay up if you choose Windows.
Ubuntu or any Linux distro will never gain enough ground to really threaten MS. At least, not in the near future. I can see the problem developing, if Ubuntu really gets it together, but as it stands, people just aren't savvy enough to bother. If they are savvy enough (as I feel I am, for example), then there is still the software barrier (sure, the basics are there; still pretty skeletal) to overcome, and that is a huge hurdle.
Why use Linux?
This is the burning question that nobody can answer. If they can, it's always the same: It's free.
Man...$250 spread over 5 years of use is free in my books. What are we, destitute? Paupers with computers?
As for stability and security, I have no problems and have never, ever had a virus. My system never crashes, no matter how hard I try, I have never been hacked or compromised and have never been a scriptkiddy victim in my entire computing life.
Why? Am I such a genius?
No. I took the 30 minutes to find out how not to become a victim and installed 2 programs. That's all it takes. Yes, people continue to be victimized, but if MS can't ask these legit owners of Windows to go to Windows Update, or even click the yellow shield in the system try that will do it all for them, how on earth do you think these cretins will find their way to Ubuntu until it's a fully supported product?
Not some geekware either, but supported with a help line to call, support at their fingertips and a cake walk experience, which, despite what one may believe, the majority of Windows users' experiences are.
Wishful thinking. Linux is geekware and when it decides to not be so, it will have no choice but to become a paid-for product.
People like Windows. Windows is a good product. Windows isn't expensive. Windows has support. Windows is incredibly flexible. Windows is sold in stores with names on the front and it comes in a box that has a companies' name and number on it.
Accountability. People want that, and Linux doesn't offer it. When they do, it will cost money, and that will make me ask a question to which there will be no answer at all.
Why use Linux?
I have said before, I am not anti-Linux. I am anti-anti-Windows. Or, if you like, anti-pro-Linux. Linux doesn't fill any niche or needs in the market. It does nothing that Windows doesn't do. Linux only serves those who don't want to pay, or have some "MS is evil" ideas.
There is no need for Linux as an alternative to Windows. Windows is not a flawed product; it needs no 'replcement' or 'fill-in' for some void it's leaving; it needs no push or nudge in any wishful direction that Linux drems it could offer. Linux isn't necessary enough to make a dent.
If I were MS, I say good riddance to those people. They never were a desirable customer, in fact, they never were a customer, and as MS is indeed a for-profit company, they are better left to Ubuntu, or whatever freebie they can pick up. MS doesn't really care, nor should they really care about those people anyways.
And I beg to differ on the "paid to do it" and "do it for passions' sake" idea. Who says that the guys working at MS are any less passionate or geeky than the Linux devs? They get paid? That's a problem? When you get money to do something, you become less passionate?
Those guys at MS are as geeky as they come, IMO. They probably like their job as much as anyone; probably more than the Linux guys because they do get paid. Nothing wrong with getting money to do what you love.
Anyhow, bottom line (if there is one in this debate): people are too stupid to use a spoon-feeding program like Windows and this pretty much guarantees that they will never get their brains to function in the world of Linux. This is good and bad for MS; the idiots (this would probably include a large portion of their customer base) cost them a lot of work, yet at the same time, ensures that thay are completely incapable of doing what it takes to get Linux running on their computers.
If one uses Linux and likes it, good on them. However, there is just no real argument for trying to convert people away from Windows. Linux is not a viable alternative. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SHANE02
Joined: 04 Jun 2003
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 5:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Microsoft will never be able to stop pirated versions of their software hitting the web or the street.
The WGA hacks appear as soon as new WGA versions do. There are also versions of Windows which are licenced for academic use. They can be installed on hundreds of machines and the serials are never blacklisted.
I think many people will be weary of Vista because of the Digital Rights Management thing......untill it's hacked of course. But then again alot of people will have to do a P.C upgrade to run Vista anyway. That's what PC makers are waiting for
I will avoid it as a main OS for at least a year untill all the bugs and crap are sorted out. Maybe VM or dual boot it when the final release hits the web just to check it out.
O.P I know get off my ass and learn Lynix . |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Lemon
Joined: 11 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 5:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Demophobe wrote: |
You never were really good news for them, so its just as well you go to a free OS, since that is all you are looking for anyhow. All they want is for you to decide one way or the other, and pay up if you choose Windows.
|
I believe you're wrong. Microsoft is what it is because (according to the linked article) 90 percent of the world's computers run Windows. Note that the figure doesn't distinguish "legal copies of Windows". Not counting pre-installed OS's, where the purchaser really had no say in the matter, how many ordinary consumers who run Windows actually bought retail boxed copies of it? I have no numbers to support this, but I suspect the percentage is on the low side, compared to those who are running copies they bootlegged, or their local computer shop bootlegged for them when they assembled the system.
Just look through this forum and you'll find thread after thread of people who are trying to get around WGA and other MS anti-copy measures. A LOT of people in this world - who didn't have Windows preinstalled - use unauthorized copies. And it's madness to assume that even a large number of them will cough up the $250 US. For one thing, the ones outside the richest countries simply don't have that kind of disposable income.
| Quote: |
| Ubuntu or any Linux distro will never gain enough ground to really threaten MS. At least, not in the near future. I can see the problem developing, if Ubuntu really gets it together, but as it stands, people just aren't savvy enough to bother. |
This hinges on how you define "get it together". A flawless install where everything just works with no effort by the user, even obscure USB wifi dongles? No need to go anywhere near drivers? A comprehensive software suite as a part of the OS (no "Wordpad")? This new version, 6.10, is all of this.
The typical Windows install requires far more "savviness", as the user needs to hunt down drivers for their motherboard, sound card, video card, wireless stuff, printer, fireware card, and any other peripherals that were made since XP SP2 was released. For people like you and me, this is a 20 minute issue, but for people with less techno-sense, this is a major hassle.
| Quote: |
| If they are savvy enough (as I feel I am, for example), then there is still the software barrier (sure, the basics are there; still pretty skeletal) to overcome, and that is a huge hurdle. |
I had my own list of "I need this" software. Office and Photoshop were high on the list. Photoshop now installs and runs quite nicely in Ubuntu, thanks to an investment from Disney into the compatibility layer, Wine. Office 2000 also installs perfectly, though 2003 doesn't, but Ubuntu comes with OpenOffice anyway, making this a non-issue.
| Quote: |
Why use Linux?
This is the burning question that nobody can answer. If they can, it's always the same: It's free. |
Well, I live in a region where Windows is essentially free, too. Although I believe the MS Tax of $250 per machine is a significant disincentive to running Windows if you don't have the illegal option available to you, the fact is, the newest version of Ubuntu is simply better than Windows at any price. I was surprised that the more I used Ubuntu, the more I grew aware of and annoyed by Windows issues that I never considered to be issues before - like everyone else, I thought they were normal facts of life with computers.
I'm not throwing away 5 to 20 percent of my system resources to run virus and spyware scanners. I don't have the hassle of downloaded software that after 30 days reveals itself to be crippleware. I don't need to deal in XGFRT-DTWWD-FKUGW serial numbers. I don't need to go looking for software at all - the system has a utility that catalogs over 20,000 pieces of software and retrieves and installs whatever I tell it I need, automatically. I don't have system instability because some new program installed an obsolete DLL. I don't get annoyed by SP2's maxconnections limit that hobbles emule and bittorrent. I don't have to ask Microsoft to let me keep using the OS because I just installed a bunch of new hardware.
And i don't have to know anything about "DRM".
I call that "better".
| Quote: |
| Man...$250 spread over 5 years of use is free in my books. What are we, destitute? Paupers with computers? |
No, $250 out of my wallet today is not "free". It's $250. And with four machines lying around, it's $1000.
| Quote: |
As for stability and security, I have no problems and have never, ever had a virus. My system never crashes, no matter how hard I try, I have never been hacked or compromised and have never been a scriptkiddy victim in my entire computing life.
Why? Am I such a genius? |
My MS system is stable too, and I don't suffer the same MS-land virus/spyware problems that most of my colleagues in my teachers room seem to acquire on a regular basis. We know how to avoid problems. We also know that if you visit the typical song lyric site - or the Korea Herald - you can get drive-by malware installed on your machine.
But most people aren't like us.
You show me the PC of a normal, non-Dave's Tech Forum Windows user - or better yet, a PC in a Korean home - and I'll show you a machine that's so bogged down with malware it's running like a 486 with 16MB of RAM.
| Quote: |
| Linux only serves those who don't want to pay, or have some "MS is evil" ideas. |
These statements might be true, but I think the bulk of the people in the 2nd situation already own Macs.
| Quote: |
| Anyhow, bottom line (if there is one in this debate): people are too stupid to use a spoon-feeding program like Windows and this pretty much guarantees that they will never get their brains to function in the world of Linux. |
You're talking like it's 2002. Trust me on this - Linux is now drop-dead-stupid-easy to use, out of the box. Quantifiably, demonstrably easier than Windows. It's different than Windows, I'll grant you that, and for most people, different/change = bad. But to say it's somehow harder than Windows is no longer the case.
| Quote: |
| If one uses Linux and likes it, good on them. However, there is just no real argument for trying to convert people away from Windows. Linux is not a viable alternative. |
Just checking - you haven't spent a whole lot of time with Ubuntu 6.06, right? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wormholes101
Joined: 11 Mar 2003
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 6:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Interesting post Lemon.
You inspired me to get up and give it a go. I booted up the "live CD" to check it out and had a bit of a play around. Ubuntu looks great and runs smooth. My laptop runs quieter on Linux.
A few problems... The getting around proprietary formats is a small hassle. Also, having some trouble getting internet to work; I don't know the usernames and passwords to set it up !! I will have to call the KT guy and find out. And, my computer doesn't have any partitions and the C drive is quite full. I'll need to partition my drive properly before I can set up a dual boot.
Well, I've had a taste and look forward to getting it running properly. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Lemon
Joined: 11 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 6:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Wormholes - a suggestion, and this is a taste thing - the very first thing to do once you get the network running (does KT have some weird DSL password sign-in thing? I recall something like that at my mother-in-law's house, until she cancelled it and I set up a wifi dongle out her window so she's now stealing from a local apartment building  ) is to get rid of Ubuntu's default theme/colors. The orange/brown thing is, in my opinion, hideous. It has some better themes built in, but look around here for some really great setups:
http://www.gnome-look.org |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wormholes101
Joined: 11 Mar 2003
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 11:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Woah! Freaky!  I got Partition Magic and partitioned my C drive into two sections and when my computer rebooted, I had NO extra drive!! Only a tiny little C drive that was 15GB in size! Rebooted again and was rather relieved to see the F drive I was looking for... whew!
i have to admit I'm a bit of a newbie at all this partitioning and new OS etc. Boy, I wish I had just partitioned my computer when I first got it...
Lemon: Thanks for the theme link. The brown is a bit yuck. I'll post up a screen shot once it's all running fine
A question: 15GB is probably too way too big for a primary partition. Is it possible to just cut and paste all the 'Program Files' (about 3GB) into another 'drive'? Will it screw up all my apps? At the moment, I have 15GB Primary C drive - includes everything; Windows, Program files, an ISO or two, photos, some free space etc- and then the 40GB Logical F drive. I reckon I can slim down the Primary to about 3GB if only Windows is in there.
Edit: So, I tested moving one program file into the F partition and it gave me an error an wouldn't fully move; It left behind a .dll file. The program still worked though. What's your take on this?
I'm thinking 3GB Primary Windows, 3GB Primary Ubuntu and the rest Logical Data. Does this seem about right?
Edit: My KT connection is an ADSL modem. I have to click on it to connect and there are passwords etc. A pain in the butt. Pretty inexperienced at setting up networks so it's all trial an error here. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SuperHero
Joined: 10 Dec 2003
Location: Superhero Hideout
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 12:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
be careful with partition magic. The first time I used it I completely fried my system and somehow deleted the bios. After that I've never had a problem.
on the linux front, I'm not too interested and will be paying for a legit copy of vista when I buy my new machine next year. I may, if I feel inspired, dual boot my current machine at that time with linux to give it a shot, but only if I have spare time - something I never seem to have. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Demophobe
Joined: 17 May 2004
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 12:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
| The Lemon wrote: |
I believe you're wrong. Microsoft is what it is because (according to the linked article) 90 percent of the world's computers run Windows. Note that the figure doesn't distinguish "legal copies of Windows". Not counting pre-installed OS's, where the purchaser really had no say in the matter, how many ordinary consumers who run Windows actually bought retail boxed copies of it? I have no numbers to support this, but I suspect the percentage is on the low side, compared to those who are running copies they bootlegged, or their local computer shop bootlegged for them when they assembled the system.
Just look through this forum and you'll find thread after thread of people who are trying to get around WGA and other MS anti-copy measures. A LOT of people in this world - who didn't have Windows preinstalled - use unauthorized copies. And it's madness to assume that even a large number of them will cough up the $250 US. For one thing, the ones outside the richest countries simply don't have that kind of disposable income. |
I hear what you are saying, but actually, I don't think I can be wrong on this. MS wants to get rid of pirated copies and 'illegal' users. Yet they know that even Vista will be hacked to bits, and they have to make allowances for it. Do I think thay would rather have a pirated Windows user than an Ubuntu user? I really don't think so. Not anymore, anyways.
As for the retail purchasing of Windows, well, that end is small potatoes for MS anyhow. Bulk licensing is where they make money. And I don't think the numbers are all that staggering for people who circumvent the MS protections. It's young people or a small group like you and I that have the know-how to do it, and actively seek it out. I would guess the vast majority of installs are legit one way or the other, but you never hear about them. We always see the dark side of Windows users, but how often do people post about being legit users with no issues?
| Quote: |
This hinges on how you define "get it together". A flawless install where everything just works with no effort by the user, even obscure USB wifi dongles? No need to go anywhere near drivers? A comprehensive software suite as a part of the OS (no "Wordpad")? This new version, 6.10, is all of this.
The typical Windows install requires far more "savviness", as the user needs to hunt down drivers for their motherboard, sound card, video card, wireless stuff, printer, fireware card, and any other peripherals that were made since XP SP2 was released. For people like you and me, this is a 20 minute issue, but for people with less techno-sense, this is a major hassle. |
Get it together. Offer CDs in stores that people can purchase with a company name on the box and a telephone number for support. As for the great driver hunt, a fresh install of Windows brings me to a very useable state, and one visit to Windows Update gets me video, sound, usb and other drivers.
No big deal there.
| Quote: |
I had my own list of "I need this" software. Office and Photoshop were high on the list. Photoshop now installs and runs quite nicely in Ubuntu, thanks to an investment from Disney into the compatibility layer, Wine. Office 2000 also installs perfectly, though 2003 doesn't, but Ubuntu comes with OpenOffice anyway, making this a non-issue. |
This still isn't an argument for Ubuntu. Windows does all of this. There is a long list of software that doesn't run on Linux, among them a great many games. It's still not equal by a long shot.
| Quote: |
Well, I live in a region where Windows is essentially free, too. Although I believe the MS Tax of $250 per machine is a significant disincentive to running Windows if you don't have the illegal option available to you, the fact is, the newest version of Ubuntu is simply better than Windows at any price. I was surprised that the more I used Ubuntu, the more I grew aware of and annoyed by Windows issues that I never considered to be issues before - like everyone else, I thought they were normal facts of life with computers.
I'm not throwing away 5 to 20 percent of my system resources to run virus and spyware scanners. I don't have the hassle of downloaded software that after 30 days reveals itself to be crippleware. I don't need to deal in XGFRT-DTWWD-FKUGW serial numbers. I don't need to go looking for software at all - the system has a utility that catalogs over 20,000 pieces of software and retrieves and installs whatever I tell it I need, automatically. I don't have system instability because some new program installed an obsolete DLL. I don't get annoyed by SP2's maxconnections limit that hobbles emule and bittorrent. I don't have to ask Microsoft to let me keep using the OS because I just installed a bunch of new hardware.
And i don't have to know anything about "DRM".
I call that "better". |
As soon as people take your advice and all fall into Linux, you will learn all of this. Obscurity is safe. The fact that Ubuntu is not worth the time of hackers says nothing about it's security. The fact is that nobody is trying to hack it, so it's safe. If Ubuntu gains serious ground, it will fall into the crosshairs of DRM, virii, malware and hacking. You will blame crap third-party software on the OS? Trust me...there is a boatload of crap programs for Linux...a boatload. XP has multiple copies of .dll files. NT has been doing that all along. Not since WinME has there been a BSOD due to multiple calls on an "in-use" .dll. The "MaxDownload" limit is easily bypassed and finally, it's because of pirated copies and Windows being a retail product that you have to contact MS. Kind of your own fault, in a way.
| Quote: |
No, $250 out of my wallet today is not "free". It's $250. And with four machines lying around, it's $1000.
My MS system is stable too, and I don't suffer the same MS-land virus/spyware problems that most of my colleagues in my teachers room seem to acquire on a regular basis. We know how to avoid problems. We also know that if you visit the typical song lyric site - or the Korea Herald - you can get drive-by malware installed on your machine.
But most people aren't like us.
You show me the PC of a normal, non-Dave's Tech Forum Windows user - or better yet, a PC in a Korean home - and I'll show you a machine that's so bogged down with malware it's running like a 486 with 16MB of RAM. |
This actually strengthens my point about people being too stupid to deal with Linux, as it stands. They can't help themselves as it is, how on earth do you expect them to take a jump right off the boat and into Linux? Yeah, most people aren't like us...having multiple machines laying around.
| Quote: |
These statements might be true, but I think the bulk of the people in the 2nd situation already own Macs. |
I would say more of these people are using Linux. Macs are too expensive for these cheapskates. 
| Quote: |
You're talking like it's 2002. Trust me on this - Linux is now drop-dead-stupid-easy to use, out of the box. Quantifiably, demonstrably easier than Windows. It's different than Windows, I'll grant you that, and for most people, different/change = bad. But to say it's somehow harder than Windows is no longer the case. |
Nope. I'm talking right now. People cannot handle Linux until it becomes a retail product, complete with full after service and support. Mark my words...the first distro that goes retail will signal the beginning of Linux as a true competitor, but until then, forget it. Accountability. This is the key to the future of Linux.
| Quote: |
Just checking - you haven't spent a whole lot of time with Ubuntu 6.06, right? |
Actually Lemon, I have. Not a ton of time, but enough to try to make a point. I don't talk of what I don't know. I got it after dbee and I had a discussion, and in order to actually continue talking with him about it, I needed to expose myself to it. Ubuntu is ok...it's a far cry from what I need and want, but it's getting better. It's pretty slick, and I had no major problems at all with it.
As I said before, I just can't see Linux going anywhere big, and I can't see any reason for a Windows user to jump ship. Ubuntu is cute and kind of fun because it's new, but it isn't the breath of fresh air that everyone is cracking it up to be. It's a pretty basic package (wow...USB works!? Shouldn't it? I should be amazed?) that gains more power as it becomes more like Windows.
Enough. I am not paid by MS, though it may sound like it. I don't hate Linux, but until it gets away from it's "pimple-faced geek", "living in my parents basement", screaming "screw the MS devil" hole it is so deeply trenched in, faces the reality that without a way to get it into a retail environment (this doesn't necessarily mean it has to be a pay product) for some credibility and someone will step up to give some accountability, it's a dead issue. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dbee
Joined: 29 Dec 2004
Location: korea
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 1:11 am Post subject: |
|
|
I went through this exact same thing with the 'naysayers' when I posted a thread here for the dapper release ...
Demophobe, I think that you're fighting a losing battle here. I've been using ubuntu for a quite a while. I'm on my third upgrade. And I have to say that I think they crossed the rubicon with Dapper, (the latest one).
wormholes, check out the easy ubuntu script, which will install all proprietary formats on your system with the click of a mouse. That's one major linux headache gone for all time . The live cd also is a great idea ... especially the cool 'install now' button it throws up on gnome.
Installing and running ubuntu is now as easy as pie. It won't get any easier than this. It seems like everyone is using ubuntu these days. There's lots of talk about it.
Like I've said previously with regards to linux, it's now excellent both for people who know everything about computers, and for those who know nothing about computers. It's the ones who know just enough to get themselves into trouble, that have to worry.
People should treat using their computer more like they treat driving a car. You don't just jump behind the wheel and start careering down the road, but rather - you take a little time and effort to understand the fundamentals and get the most out of your driving experience... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SHANE02
Joined: 04 Jun 2003
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 1:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
@ Wormholes
You could try Acronis Disk Director
You can create drives from free space etc...and it has its own O.S selector if you want to use that. The newest version will even merge partitions.
I too had major hassles with the Norton app so be carefull.
You cant just cut and paste installed apps sorry...the windows registry will complain. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Demophobe
Joined: 17 May 2004
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 2:09 am Post subject: |
|
|
When it comes to choice, there is no losing battle. I think this is more just a case of laying out opinions more than any kind of argument.
When Linux can do what I want and need, I will happily use it. However, it isn't there yet.
As for going bigtime, I have stated why I don't think it is ready yet and why the masses won't bite into it. I know I am right on this, and we won't see a home pc distro hitting the charts in a meaningful way for a while, until the 2 major problems, accountability and credibility, are addressed.
Look what it took to get Mozilla out of the woods. Even now, despite all the problems and vulnerabilities plaguing it, the majority still use IE, and by a healthy margin.
To each their own, but there is nothing wrong with a discussion about both sides of a particular issue. I am playing the devil's advocate with you Linux users, that's all. As I have said before, I am not anti nor pro anything. I use what serves me best, as I'm sure you do. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dbee
Joined: 29 Dec 2004
Location: korea
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 6:11 am Post subject: |
|
|
wormholes ... try this easy-ubuntu script that'll install all proprietary formats, codecs, music players, flash and java plugins etc on the click of a button...
Like the docs say ... You've just died and gone to linux heaven ... . I get goosebumps just thinking about the mani-mani-blackdown and sdk java issues I've had over the years. And that's not even including flash and the others...
... that is THE MAJOR linux pain in the ass taken care of right there. That script alone is a huge leap forward twords bridging the windows/linux divide. Linux won't get any easier to install and use than it is now. And IMO it's easier and faster than windows is ... 
Demophobe, you may have good points. And nobody has a problem with you playing devil's advocate. Just like no-one has a problem with the fact that only the person who uses the computer can say which OS suits them best. You know your computers, and your opinion is more valuable than most...
However, you're also continually bring up matters which to a large extent are ancient history in the Linux world. On the one hand you're complaining about the fact that linux is geekware, and too complex for an average user. Yet on the otherhand you're boasting that you haven't used or installed linux since the 90's (if I remember correctly).
No-one wants to stop you from bashing linux. But the least you could do is actually try it first, before giving your opinion Linux isn't the be-all and end-all of operating systems. But I for one would love to hear the impressions of a veteran windows user like yourself...
PS: which software are you lacking btw ? ... what about running a free-open source virtualization suite like Qemu during a trial period ? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Lemon
Joined: 11 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 7:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
No-one wants to stop you from bashing linux. But the least you could do is actually try it first, before giving your opinion Linux isn't the be-all and end-all of operating systems. But I for one would love to hear the impressions of a veteran windows user like yourself...
|
Right. I'm intimately familiar with the arguments against Linux, because I'd been making it since the first time I tried an old Mandrake release around 1999. I'd try to do something that should have been easy to do, would get caught in Linux nonsense, and give up and go back to Windows. I had no patience for trying to make basic parts of my computer's operative system work. I still don't.
I'd continued to dabble in Linux distributions every year or so, but the result was always the same - 'not ready yet'. Hardware wouldn't install. Software was inferior. UI was coarse. Why bother?
Even the Ubuntu of a year ago, say 5.04, still wasn't quite ready. But I'm with dbee - that last version, 6.06, was a real milestone. No geeky terminal commands are necessary to run the thing. No config scripts need to be edited. Everything just happens - including wifi hardware setup - automatically, and in a more complete way than a basic Windows install. And the new 6.10 is even better.
It's still not perfect. I still prefer XP SP2's wifi configuration, with a bubble that comes up in the tray when you're near an access point. You have to ask Ubuntu if there's one near - XP's behaviour is better. And I really like MS Publisher for desktop publishing - Linux's Scribus is nowhere near as good, yet. And Linux still isn't ready for MIDI/audio composition and editing, though it's on its way.
I don't hate Windows at all. The worst complaints against Windows - instability, blue screens of death - were largely solved with the advent of Windows 2000 and XP. But the delay of 6 years between versions is insanity. Will the next Vista be in 2013?
And even worse insanity is Vista's minimum requirements. Seriously - how powerful a machine do you need to run a word processor and a browser, which is 95 percent of what people do with computers? We used to do that well enough 10 years ago with 486s. Is a 3Ghz processor necessary? Is the whole point of Vista to create a demand for those faster processors that no one's buying anymore because they're not needed?
I assume all that that horsepower is to run even more eye candy, as it was with XP (vs W2K, which ran decently on a modest machine). That's simply nuts. And it's another vote for Ubuntu, which loves being run on older hardware. For my 2nd laptop, a PIII/600 with only 192mb of ram, Ubuntu is fast becoming its only choice for a modern operating system, as Windows develops beyond its capability. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
