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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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 Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 2:55 am Post subject: |
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You know what, Hollywood? I cannot really wait for you to figure it out.
Here is Clinton's answer from his memoirs...
| Bill Clinton wrote: |
...We also had trouble closer to home when Cuba shot down two civilian planes flown by the anti-Castro group "Brothers to the Rescue," killing four men. Castro hated the group and the leaflets critical of him that it had dropped over Havana in the past. Cuba claimed the planes were shot in its airspace. They weren't, but even if they had been, the downings still would have violated international law.
I suspended charter flights to Cuba, restricted travel by Cuban officials in the United States, expanded the reach of Radio Marti, which beamed pro-democracy messages into Cuba, and asked Congress to authorize compensation out of Cuba's blocked assets in the United States to the families of the men who were killed. Madeleine Albright asked the United Nations to impose sanctions, telling them that the shootdown reflected cowardice, "not cojones." She went to Miami to deliver a fiery speech to the Cuban-American community. Her macho remarks made her a heroine among South Florida's Cubans.
I also committed to signing a version of the Helms-Burton bill, which stiffened the embargo against Cuba and restricted the President's authority to lift it without congressional approval. Supporting the bill was good election-year politics in Florida, but it undermined whatever chance I migh have if I won a second term to lift the embargo in return for positive changes within Cuba. It almost appeared that Castro was trying to force us to maintain the embargo as an excuse for the economic failures of his regime. If that wasn't the objective, then Cuba had made a colossal error. I later received word from Castro, indirectly of course, that the shoot-down was a mistake. Apparently he had issued earlier orders to fire on any aircraft that violated Cuban airspace and had failed to withdraw them when the Cubans knew the Brothers to the Rescue planes were coming. |
Clinton, My Life, 700-701.
So, if you are pressing me on the "arrogant American regime" issue, then I am going to have to answer "no, it was not an arrogant move, per se; such an explanation would be far too simplistic." |
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cubanlord
Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Location: In Japan!
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| Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 3:14 am Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
" What are the roots of Helms-Burton...
Perhaps CubanLord can tell us something about this if he is still around... |
Hello Gopher,
Yes, I am still around but not much. I have been busy with my studies and my wife. Dave's has taken a permanent back burner for me. It's great to see everyone again; allow me to provide some background on this topic, mainly, the Helms-Burton Act.
Clinton was extremely hesitant to sign off on this bill. He knew that the E.U. did not approve of the Act. This, however, changed once the two civilian planes were shot down in February of 1997 (case study by Arizon State University). This unfounded attack on civilian U.S. airplanes was the straw that broke the camels back. Hesitantly, Clinton signed off on it.
Unfortunately there are problems with this act, specifically articles III and IV. Act III, since the passing of the Act, was permanently suspended. Act IV requires the president to bi-annually suspend it.
Please refer to the following links for further information:
http://www.american.edu/TED/helms.htm#r1
http://www.law.arizona.edu/library/Pathfinders/jbalette/pathfinder.htm#INTERNATIONAL%20LAW%20CITATIONS%20%20FOR%20TRACKING%20THE |
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cubanlord
Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Location: In Japan!
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| Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 3:19 am Post subject: Re: Castro Has Cancer |
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| dulouz wrote: |
Think he'd like some medical marijuana?
| Quote: |
Ever since President Fidel Castro was sidelined for what was said to be abdominal surgery last July, Cuban officials have maintained that the country's leader will return to his post. ''We will again have him leading the revolution,'' said Foreign Minister Felipe P�rez Roque just two days ago, speaking at an outdoor rally to protest the U.S. trade embargo against Cuba, according to the Communist Party daily newspaper Granma.
But U.S. officials tell TIME that many in the U.S. government are now convinced that Castro, 80, has terminal cancer and will never return to power. "Certainly we have heard this, that this guy has terminal cancer," said one U.S. official.
Of course, such intelligence reports could be wrong, and one official cautioned that definitive proof is nearly impossible for the U.S. to come by. Yet the fact that the Cuban government removed Castro from the public stage before his death could suggest that Castro and his would-be successors were aware of a terminal condition and wanted to gauge public reaction to his absence. "They got to see how people would react," says one U.S. official. "They have had a chance to see how things might work without out him functioning day-to-day."
The U.S. government has been preparing for Castro's departure for half a century. But this time, the Bush Administration has set up an interagency group to coordinate policy once the inevitable happens.
That doesn't mean that things will change much. Fidel's brother Raul, 75, has been acting president since Fidel went into the hospital and has given no indication that he will change the policies of the isolated Communist government that has tormented the U.S. since taking power in 1959. Though he has until recently kept a very low profile, Raul Castro � not Fidel � was feted as the host of the non-aligned nations' summit on Sept. 15. Then Raul called a high profile meeting of the country's local, provincial and national leadership at what he called "this historic moment in our country's history." In another sign of his increasing prominence, two weeks ago Raul delivered his first televised national speech at the close of a trade union federation congress.
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He has stomach cancer, not glaucoma. |
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hogwonguy1979
Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Location: the racoon den
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| Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 6:24 am Post subject: |
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| you'll know when he goes, you'll be able to hear the party on Calle Ocho in Miami here |
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cubanlord
Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Location: In Japan!
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| Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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| hogwonguy1979 wrote: |
| you'll know when he goes, you'll be able to hear the party on Calle Ocho in Miami here |
Amen to that! On a similar note, I wonder if there would be a mass exodus back to Cuba? I'd be inclined to say that the poor would definitely return. However, those that fled Cuba sometime ago and have made a comfortable home in the U.S. would stay. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I wonder if there would be a mass exodus back to Cuba? |
I was wondering about that, too. Thanks for your comment on it. |
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Hollywoodaction
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
Did you even read my post?
Where did I say whether I thought the United States was or was not "arrogant" and why must it always be a one-sided value-laden discussion when it comes to U.S. foreign policy?
By the way, Einstein, William Jefferson Clinton signed Helms-Burton into law. He was, in the way that all presidents are, "the American government" at that time. Was he an "arrogant" and high-handed president? (Didn't Mithridates tell me a while ago that Canadians love Clinton and he would probably be elected prime minister if he ever ran for officer there?)
So, what are the roots of Helms-Burton -- do you even know? What kinds of things were being said in committee -- have you read the transcripts? (I can answer "yes" to both of the above questions -- can you?)
Besides those roots (in Miami and New Jersey: there is your clue), what problems had Castro himself created that made such legislative initiatives likely to come out of the U.S. -- are you even interested in considering such a question?
Perhaps CubanLord can tell us something about this if he is still around... |
Oh, please. The fact remains that the law saught to dictate other nations's trade policies, and thus was arrogant in the sense that it claimed the right to transcend international law, jurisdiction, and sovereignty. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Hollywoodaction wrote: |
| Oh, please. The fact remains that the law saught [sic] to dictate other nations's [sic] trade policies, and thus was arrogant in the sense that it claimed the right to transcend international law, jurisdiction, and sovereignty. |
You are still off on this. Nation-states, even the United States, may pass whatever legislation they like. When they start interfering with other nation-states, as some such laws do, then it becomes a matter of power-politics, no more no less, but an undeniable feature of global politics since Day One nonetheless.
By the way, how about Castro's initial seizure without compensation of U.S. (and the Cubans who fled to Miami) private property?
Was that arrogant or or against international law? (Why do I anticipate a response from you saying that it was righteous?)
So, then, when Castro seized assets and failed to compensate for such seizure, he got in some people's faces. Good for him. But there are consequences for such things. Sorry if you do not morally approve, incidentally. But such is life in the big world.
And, finally, it just did not have to turn out as it did. Castro is in fact at least 50% responsible for the way things have turned out.
Compare and contrast, for example, Costa Rica's Jose Figueres's methods with Castro's. See Kyle Longley, The Sparrow and the Hawk: Costa Rica and the United States during the Rise of Jose Figueres. |
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cubanlord
Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Location: In Japan!
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| Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 4:30 am Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
By the way, how about Castro's initial seizure without compensation of U.S. (and the Cubans who fled to Miami) private property?
When Castro seized assets and failed to compensate for such seizure, he got... |
 ........ 
Don't even get me started on that s.h.i.t. |
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