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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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 Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 12:41 am Post subject: |
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ddeubel wrote:
Gopher,
I'll listen to the bum on the street... DD
It does sound that that is where you get the majority of your "information"....I'm waiting for the day when you tell us how tinfoil hats protect your mind from the government...that's what some bums on the street tell me. |
A complete cut and past job, NOT what I said at all. You are a wacko if you think misrepresenting someone is cool. Totally mythical like so much within you....
DD |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 4:06 am Post subject: |
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| ddeubel wrote: |
| Quote: |
ddeubel wrote:
Gopher,
I'll listen to the bum on the street... DD
It does sound that that is where you get the majority of your "information"....I'm waiting for the day when you tell us how tinfoil hats protect your mind from the government...that's what some bums on the street tell me. |
A complete cut and past job, NOT what I said at all. You are a wacko if you think misrepresenting someone is cool. Totally mythical like so much within you....
DD |
I put on three dots at the end to show that there was more you said. Had I NOT done that, then I would be "misrepresenting" you. (BTW it's misquoting, not misrepresenting.) But I only wanted to focus on this part of your quote, to point out that perhaps we should take what you said with a grain of salt (or two) if this is one of the sources of your information (which IS what you DID say.) |
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Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
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| Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 5:26 am Post subject: |
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| The Arrogant, the Misguided, and the Cowards |
That sums up sean Penn's typical roles nicely.
Sean Penn???getting desperate there Big bird? |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 10:54 am Post subject: |
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| Junior wrote: |
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| The Arrogant, the Misguided, and the Cowards |
That sums up Sean Penn's typical roles nicely... |
What about Jeff Spicoli...?
| Jeff Spicoli wrote: |
| This is U.S. History, I see the globe right there. |
| Quote: |
[Pizza delivery guy drops off pizza to Spicoli while in Mr. Hand's history class...]
Mr. Hand: Am I hallucinating here? Just what in the hell do you think you're doing?
Jeff Spicoli: Learning about Cuba, having some food. |
Actually, I think Penn is one of the most brilliant actors of his generation. I just do not care for actors or celebrities to preach their politics to me, whether I agree with them or not. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Junior wrote: |
Sean Penn???getting desperate there Big bird? |
You got excited enough about it to post, didn't you?  |
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ChimpumCallao
Joined: 17 May 2005
Location: your mom
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| Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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"Sean Penn's speech on arrogant misguided cowards"
DOES ANYONE SEE THE IRONY HERE????!!!!
That guy is a grade A douche. How telling that big bird gets her inspiration from flaky hollywood types...i mean...he's famous and makes MOVIES...what he says MUST be important.
Ass. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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| ChimpumCallao wrote: |
"Sean Penn's speech on arrogant misguided cowards"
DOES ANYONE SEE THE IRONY HERE????!!!!
That guy is a grade A douche. How telling that big bird gets her inspiration from flaky hollywood types...i mean...he's famous and makes MOVIES...what he says MUST be important.
Ass. |
Interesting that I've started many threads the last few days, but this was the one that fascinated you the most....like a fly to the proverbial sh... |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 4:25 am Post subject: |
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SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHhhhh
Don't want to awaken the ..........................
DD |
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Leslie Cheswyck
Joined: 31 May 2003
Location: University of Western Chile
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| Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 4:47 am Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| Jeff Spicoli wrote: |
| This is U.S. History, I see the globe right there. |
| Quote: |
[Pizza delivery guy drops off pizza to Spicoli while in Mr. Hand's history class...]
Mr. Hand: Am I hallucinating here? Just what in the hell do you think you're doing?
Jeff Spicoli: Learning about Cuba, having some food. |
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Mr. Hand was the the coolest.
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itaewonguy
Joined: 25 Mar 2003
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| Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 6:13 am Post subject: |
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wonder what penn is saying now that Kim jeong il start tested a nuke!
wonder what will he will be saying when a war breaks out!!
ohh leave it to the south koreans! why do we need to be involved!
since when did ACTORS became scholars in world politics?
they should stay with acting... and leave the politics to politicians!! |
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Satori
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Above it all
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| Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 8:34 am Post subject: |
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| ChimpumCallao wrote: |
"Sean Penn's speech on arrogant misguided cowards"
DOES ANYONE SEE THE IRONY HERE????!!!!
That guy is a grade A douche. How telling that big bird gets her inspiration from flaky hollywood types...i mean...he's famous and makes MOVIES...what he says MUST be important.
Ass. |
How, exactly, do you figure Penn is a flaky douche? He's widely acknowledged by critics and fans as one of the premier actors of his generation. That takes some doing. You need intelligence, talent, and a hell of a lot of hard work. It's pretty hard to get to where he has got in the industry if you are flaky. You have to bring the heat when the camera is rolling. Not much room for faking or flaking there.
As for you insinuation that we should not consider his opinion to be correct just because he's an actor, I agree. We should also not consider it automatically wrong either. Him being an actor is immaterial in regards to his position, it simply gives him a platform, right or wrong, that's how it is. So engage with his ideas, prove how they're wrong. Don't just rail about how wrong it is that actors get a platform to say political things. That road just leads into how corrupt politics is, and trust me, the Republicans don't come out well at the end of that particular discussion.
My feeling is that the conservatives in this thread would not be so up in arms about actors having a platform to say political things if the things being said were shaded red... |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Satori wrote: |
| My feeling is that the conservatives in this thread would not be so up in arms about actors having a platform to say political things if the things being said were shaded red... |
Then, at least in my case, I must point out that your feeling is wrong.
I did mention Charleton Heston and gun control. There are probably other commentators of his political stripe as well.
In any case, Hollywood celebrities, most of them hardly educated in anything, let alone critical thinking, deserve no special preference when it comes to their usually half-baked opinions and political commentary.
There is little difference about the propriety of Tom Cruise pushing his religious views on us and Sean Penn pushing his political agenda... |
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Satori
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Above it all
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| Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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As I said before, I agree that thier opinions should not be given any particular preference, but I don't think they should be given any special trashing either. Their opinions should be taken on thier merits as all opinions should be. You are not even engaging with his ideas at all. You are simply angry that an actor has a platform to get his ideas out. That's just the way of the world. Writers also have a platform to get thier political ideas out, though they might have very poor ideas indeed. I'm thinking of Anne Coulter.
The language you use, ie "pushing his political agenda" shows you are angry and not seeing this in a sane and balanced way. I mean, afterall, that phrase is essentially meaningless. Anyone who is talking politically is "pushing thier own political agenda". You are using the phrase for it's derogatory effect. Here's a hint, it's called free speech. If you want to do something that gets you the attention that gives you a platform for your political views then you are free to do so. I still don't see you refuting his ideas at all, simply raging against the fact that he is able to get his ideas out to more people than you are. It's very much like Anne Coulter positively frothing at the mouth over the fact that the 9/11 widows used thier position to question the government, ie pure ad hominem, not dealing with the issues on the table. |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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This whole debate on whether those with a certain profile should voice "political" opinions, reminds me of the life of Auden, its contradictions.
He was very overtly political, in writing and much of his teaching. Engaged in wanting to find what he thought of as "that better place". Yet, I remember reading once in an essay he wrote that he abhored as a poet, being asked his "opinion" on current events/politics. He asked rhetorically, why should he know more than the butcher, the baker, the candlestick maker?
A contradiction. Such is life. I can't really say what Auden really felt in his heart of hearts, we will have to just look at his words and take them in. But I do think he meant that we are all political creatures, with opinions. We are better to voice them. If poets, to write them. BUT just don't think because you are a poet or an actor -- that opinion is correct.
Authority is gained in another manner and not just through notoriety or celebrity or money or even if I may say -- how many votes you got the last go around. Authority is gained by the very nature of your words, the passion and humanity in your acts, as well.
"Adopted what I would disown,/The preacher's loose immodest tone". A line from one of Auden's sonnets, reflect this very dualism and seeming contradiction.
But I agree with the lines attributed to him that,
| Quote: |
| "We are all here on earth to help others; what on earth the others are here for, I don't know." |
So everyone is free to and should be "political".
DD |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Satori wrote: |
| You are not even engaging with his ideas at all. You are simply angry that an actor has a platform to get his ideas out...The language you use, ie "pushing his political agenda" shows you are angry and not seeing this in a sane and balanced way.... |
So you, Penn's apologist here, say.
In any case, let us examine one of Penn's hyperbolic allegations, shall we?
| Sean Penn wrote: |
| ...they [the W. Bush Administration] have created the greatest cultural, religious, and political divide domestically since our own Civil War. |
I think that whoever says something like this is entirely caught up in a presentist political movement and is reinterpreting the past through an extremely narrow and myopic lens.
Penn forces this onto us using his celebrity status as a wedge and as smokescreen to conceal his hyperbole and its ultimate roots in his own ignorance of historical forces and historical change.
To see current affairs as "the greatest cultural, religious, and political divide domestically since our own Civil War" is absurd and simplistic. He is attempting to manipulate people through their fears and other emotions.
-- what about the overproduction, social crises, and shooting labor wars and other protests in the late-nineteenth through the early twentieth centuries?
-- what about the issues and debates revolving around the annexation of the Philippines and the "internationalist" vs. "isolationist" struggle that lasted for decades?
-- what about McCarthyism?
-- what about the Civil Rights Movement, including the urban guerrillas, the protests, and the suppression?
-- what about Vietnam? Vietnam? Today's polarization is even greater than that what we saw during this era? And it is more comparable to a time when the country had divided into two armed camps and fought a shooting war?
-- what about Watergate?
-- what about the culture wars that have been going on over religious issues since at least as early as the 1990s?
-- what about the Clinton Administration and its scandals?
All of this turbulence, incidentally, has little or indeed nothing at all to do with the W. Bush Administration and its shortcomings (and there are many shortcomings).
Again, Penn merely presents the rantings of a half-informed commentator and they carry no weight whatsoever any more than Timothy McVeigh or the Michigan Militia's half-informed discourses on the American Revolution did. As far as domestic division, Penn has probably only heard of the Civil War and so he knowns of no other analogy to make. So he knows no more about U.S. history or politics than Tom Cruise (or L. Ron Hubbard) knows about psychiatry and mental illness.
You come here, on the other hand, and defend Penn only because his antiBush politics (and hysteria) coincide with yours. You are so eager to defend him, that you miss the hyperbole that he is throwing at us, like the one case I illustrate above.
So, again, for me at least, this issue has nothing at all to do with anger. It is credibility that concerns me. And in these matters Penn has none.
By the way, although Coulter is almost always wrong, and she was certainly wrong in the way that she said it, her fundamental point about the widows and their status as willing propaganda tools of the left was dead on. |
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