|
Korean Job Discussion Forums "The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
dogbert

Joined: 29 Jan 2003 Location: Killbox 90210
|
Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 8:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
[quote="Ya-ta Boy"]
| Quote: |
| Some segments of the Jewish community have assimilated far more than others. The most conservative elements have assimilated the least. They wear funny clothes, have odd hair dos and have special food requirements that require certain adjustments sometimes, but their overall contributions to society make it worth that extra effort. |
Your subjective opinion. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Big_Bird

Joined: 31 Jan 2003 Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
|
Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 3:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| Quote: |
| This (assimilation) ought to be independent of race or ethnicity but isn't. We all admit that it isn't. I think we all want colour not to matter but it does. |
But it matters to only SOME people. Not all. For many people it is not an issue at all. There are far too many inter-racial marriages to ignore that evidence. Color matters to some people because they want it to matter and some of their actions force it to matter to other people.
....
Assimilation does not have to be black or white, 100%, all or nothing. |
Well said. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Adventurer

Joined: 28 Jan 2006
|
Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:03 am Post subject: |
|
|
[quote="dogbert"]
| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Some segments of the Jewish community have assimilated far more than others. The most conservative elements have assimilated the least. They wear funny clothes, have odd hair dos and have special food requirements that require certain adjustments sometimes, but their overall contributions to society make it worth that extra effort. |
Your subjective opinion. |
As far as the Orthodox Jews, they do stand out when juxtaposed with your run of the mill Jew or Christian. America largely was founded by people who were influenced by enlightenment and many secular ideas. Those ideas influenced many Jews and Christians. Those who strongly oppose the enlightenment which influenced the constitutions of the U.S., France, Canada, and the unofficial Constition of England called Common Law. You can argue, as you did, the poster Yata was responding to that Orthodox Jews don't quite assimilate. They do not. Not everyone does.
But you can also argue that to some extent that many Evangelical Christians reject the enlightenment to some extent and many of its ideas, so they would be in the same camp as the Orthodox Jew but without having the curls. Orthodox Jews do not pose a threat to the U.S., at any rate; they are a small minority. They are not going to focus on people having things in Yiddish or Hebrew for them or viewed with suspicion by most North Americans. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005 Location: Easy Street.
|
Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
| BJWD wrote: |
Nono. I don't mean Germany wouldn't grant me citizenship, but that I could not become German. American isn't an ethnicity, German is.
My larger idea is that European identities are closely related to ideas of race and ethnicity (not to mention religion) whereas in America they are less so. This makes it easier to assimilate in America for the very obvious reason that full assimilation in Germany, for example, is impossible. You can never become German, you can only be born German. In my opinion, this is why European nations opted for multiculturalism over the so-called melting-pot. They never intended to permanently absorb the immigrates because 1) they can't and 2) they don't want to. |
That has nothing to do with what you previously posted about the gang situation in the UK. British citizenship is not based on ethnicity: we have the same concept of civil society as in other Commonwealth countries and in the US. France too, if I'm not mistaken.
So don't take Germany as the representative of all Europe. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
|
Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
There is a British ethnicity. Just like Germany. German citizenship isn't based on ethnicity either. Being German, like being British (and unlike American) is an ethnicity. While anyone (literally) can become a British citizen, nobody can become ethnically British (except by birth). This is a starting point of exclusion that America does not have. That isn't to say that America will not have the problems, but that assimilation is likely easier there.
It has everything to do with the gang problem. You euros thought that multicult would work, it hasn't. Your future will resemble the future (and past) of the earth. Ethnic violence and a quest for domination. This isn't the "fault" of any one group more than the other. Cultures just don't mix that well sometimes.
This isn't exactly a controversial statement. You don't have to look very far to find an academic or pundit that asserts our future is one of increasing ethnic violence. What is perhaps not so welcome, is that this violence will be on the streets of Paris, London, Malmo and beyond. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
jaderedux

Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Location: Lurking outside Seoul
|
Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 6:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
As a second gen hispanic in the states I am getting tired of all the whining. I am all about immigration. It is good for the country and makes for a healthy population.
HOWEVER, if you move to a different country guess what you might have to change the way you do things. If you want to continue to kill your teenage daughters for not marrying the man you choose or for going on a date then perhaps you should stay where you are.
If you want to wear a burka covering your entire body then don't expect to get a drivers license. Guess what sucks to be you. If you want to wear a veil to school and not change during gym class then stay in your own country and have yourself a good ol' time.
Don't come to America expecting us to change EVERYTHING so your sensibilities aren't damaged. The Chinese maintained their culture quite nicely and don't have to go around wearing "ques" and "imperial dress" to do so. Hispanics damn near have their own holidays Cinco De Mayo is a holiday in some states. We have maintained a connection to our home country and I never wear a sombrero or sarape to work to prove what a good mexican I am.
If you want to practice your religion fine but like it or not America is secular. You don't get to set up another country. You can practice your religion at home or in a Mosque as much as you please but to exist successfully some compromises have to made.
AGAIN, you cannot kill any family members for "honor". Sorry we frown on it. You only get to have one wife. Sorry sucks but that's the way it is. You cannot marry off your 13 year old to her uncle. Well okay maybe in Arkansas....LOL.
We are all so mired in our political correctness and fear of hurting someones feelings. Tough *hit. Every single immigrant group in america suffered and then assimilated in some form or another. It isn't easy and I am glad for that.
I get tired of all the walking on eggs. You want to live in America well sucks but you have do some assimilating. If you want to have your life exactly how it was in India, Pakistan, Mexico or Korea then stay there and live in the culture you understand. If you want to live in America then you have to change somewhat. That is what makes countries strong and vibrant. Diversity tempered with pragmatism.
Much as Gramps would like to have kept his life the same as it was in Mexico he understood if he wanted to get somewhere he had to.....
1. Learn the language.
2. Send his kids to school.
3. Get a freaking job and don't expect handouts.
4. He wanted to stay so he became a citizen.
5. Work harder because nobody at that time was too impressed with a Mexican.
Not fair but life isn't ever fair. Not then and not now. Black people have made alot of strides and it wasn't easy. Every inch was fought for and the battle continues. But they do not want their own state they want the opportunities everyone else has.
I don't give 2 shakes is this is not P.C. My family worked hard and made it. They gave up some of their customs for everyday life to live in a country that allowed them to work hard, make money and become successful. They were called spics, wetbacks, and a myriad of other crap and guess what we all survived the name calling and got our revenge but being educated and successful. Without whining. Without complaining about how it is so unfair.
Suck it up. If you want to live in Britain....then understand it ain't like home and you might have to change to survive and be successful. Isolation breeds distrust. If you can't change...stay the hell where you are.
Jade |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|