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Defeating the search function
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huffdaddy



Joined: 25 Nov 2005

PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 9:36 pm    Post subject: Defeating the search function Reply with quote

As we all know, the search function is no good. How about we come up with a system to give threads tags which can be searched for. Tags which will not otherwise naturally occur.

for example, a thread about what to do in Busan would have a

busantag

Anyone wanting information about Busan would just do a search for 'busantag' and find much more relevent threads than doing a search for 'busan'

Information about getting to or from the airport would have

airporttag

Multiple tags could also be used. A thread about Wonderland contracts would have the tags

contracttag wonderlandtag

Anyone wanting information information about Wonderland would search for 'wonderlandtag' and find the thread. As would anyone looking at contract examples who searched for 'contracttag'.

Etc.

These tags would be added by either the original poster, or a responder "in the know". People could add tags to old threads if they see fit, but it wouldn't be required. Considering that most questions get answered every week, a few weeks of tags would provide the answers to most questions.

Anyone else game?



searchtag
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SeoulnPepe



Joined: 13 Sep 2006
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That would be cool. Certainly a much better way to organize this site.
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rakuan



Joined: 30 Aug 2004
Location: Pohang, Korea

PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 6:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah... the search function has been the bane of my existence for the past 3 years.... i'm only oh so eager to defeat it.

for the sake of uniformity, how would suggest we tag new entries? Putting the tag in the title or in the body of the post?
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huffdaddy



Joined: 25 Nov 2005

PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rakuan wrote:

for the sake of uniformity, how would suggest we tag new entries? Putting the tag in the title or in the body of the post?


Putting in the body would work best. Newbies might not know to tag, so an experiences responder could add the tag(s).

For example, this thread has "searchtag" added. Now go and search for "searchtag". You get this thread. And this thread only. I also added "incheontag" to a couple of threads about Incheon.

The one thing we would need is uniformity in the names of the tags.

For example, city tags:

seoultag, busantag, daegutag, etc.

School tags:

adulttag, kindytag, publictag, universitytag

contract and visa issues:

contracttag, visatag, visaruntag, fvisatag, f4visatag

school tags:

wonderlandtag, kidsclubtag, ybmtag, wtag, etc.


Feel free to add your own suggestions.

I think we should have a central clearing house for tags and when to use them. Of course, this whole idea relies on the (goodwill) participation of other users. So I'm not going to go to a lot of effort on this scheme unless others are interested in implementing it.

Opinions? Ideas?
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billybrobby



Joined: 09 Dec 2004

PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

do you know how the search function works? How do you know it would respond effectively to busantag when it doesn't respond to busan? Isn't PHPBB open source? maybe you could look at the search function code and figure out why it sucks.
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missg



Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Location: Seoul, Korea

PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm all for tagging, but why not fix the original search function first?? Idea

In the meantime, Google can search Dave's ESL pages easily.

Just make sure there are no spaces between site, the colon, and the web address.

For example, this is a search for threads with the word itaewon:
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huffdaddy



Joined: 25 Nov 2005

PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

billybrobby wrote:
do you know how the search function works? How do you know it would respond effectively to busantag when it doesn't respond to busan?


I believe the search function just picks out every thread with that word in it. So you get a lot of false hits - threads that actually have nothing to do with that subject but have it mentioned at least once. For example, do a search on 'search'. Now do a search on 'searchtag'. (For those interested in instant gratitude, the returns are 8175 and 1 results, respectively). So as long as tag words are only used in relevent threads, we shouldn't have any false hits (except for this thread).

Quote:
Isn't PHPBB open source? maybe you could look at the search function code and figure out why it sucks.


Yeah. Considering all the boards running phpBB, you'd think someone has written a better search function. Something googlesque which lists threads by the importance of the search items. But searching 'phpbb search' on google, you see a lot of people complain about the search function with very few answers.

missg wrote:
In the meantime, Google can search Dave's ESL pages easily.


It works fairly well. You still get false hits and omissions. For example, if I do a search on 'huffdaddy' on google, I only get 84 results. I've made a lot more than 84 posts.

I've been writing down a starter list of tags which I will post later today.
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huffdaddy



Joined: 25 Nov 2005

PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 5:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

An initial rough draft of tags. Suggestions or comments welcome.

City tags

seoultag - life in Seoul, we should probably also have neighborhood breakdowns as well
daegutag - life in Daegu
busantag - life in Busan
incheontag - life in Incheon
ulsantag - life in Ulsan
etc.

General tags

foodtag - threads about food - restaurants and groceries
languagetag - threads about Korean language
womentag - threads about women
mentag - threads about men
babytag - threads about pregnancy and babies
clothestag - threads about clothes
drinkingtag - threads about alcohol
drivingtag - threads about cars and motorcycles
moneytag - threads about ATMs, converting money

Legal issues tags

contracttag - contract reviews
visatag - threads about visa issuance (not including visa runs)
fvisatag - threds about F-2 and F-5 visas
f4visatag - threads about F-4 visas
visaruntag - threads about visa runs
privatestag - threads about teaching privates
releaselettertag - threads about release letters
midnightruntag - threads about midnight runs
immigrationtag - threads about the physical immigration office

Teaching tags
kindytag - threads about teaching in a kindy
publictag - threads about teaching in a public school
hogwantag - threads about teaching in a hogwan
universitytag - threads about teaching in a university
adulttag - threads about teaching adults
grammartag - threads about grammar

Schools and recruiters tags

wonderlandtag - threads about Wonderland
(plus other schools)
recruitertag - threads about recruiters


Misc tags

baseballtag - threads about baseball
hockeytag - threads about hockey
footballtag - threads about American, Canadian, or Australian football
soccertag - threads about everyone else's football
tvtag - threads about TV shows, watching TV


Last edited by huffdaddy on Sun Oct 15, 2006 6:11 am; edited 2 times in total
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Tiberious aka Sparkles



Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Location: I'm one cool cat!

PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a capital idea, H. Diddy, but what about multiple word searches? Let's say I want to help people looking for info on the Seoul Immigration Office's operating hours, should I tag the post seoulimmigrationtag, seoulimmigrationofficetag, seoulimmigrationofficeoperatinghourstag, or should I separate each word and add 'tag' to the end of each one? I assume that since the person searching would put a space between words, something such as seoulimmigrationofficeoperatinghourstag wouldn't be of much help, and would make me look like a weirdo. And I could do with less evidence of that, thank you. Laughing

Also -- and I hate to bring this up -- there's the potential for misuse. Let's say I read a post I dislike or think is an obvious troll; what's to stop me from adding 'gaytag' to it, and then when someone wants to search for information on the gay experience in Korea, they have to deal with my juvenile prank? I certainly hope that wouldn't be the case, but never overestimate the maturity of the majority of Dave's posters (myself included, for I recall last night doing the subterfuge I just mentioned, albeit satirically).
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huffdaddy



Joined: 25 Nov 2005

PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 6:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tiberious aka Sparkles wrote:
This is a capital idea, H. Diddy, but what about multiple word searches? Let's say I want to help people looking for info on the Seoul Immigration Office's operating hours, should I tag the post seoulimmigrationtag, seoulimmigrationofficetag, seoulimmigrationofficeoperatinghourstag, or should I separate each word and add 'tag' to the end of each one?


I was thinking of separate tags, such as "seoultag and immigrationtag", but I'll have to test it out to see how the search function responds. Ideally, such a search should return only those threads with both the 'seoultag' and 'immigrationtag'.

Ideally, we'll keep a centralized list (in this thread) of tags that people use which can be referred to.


Quote:
Also -- and I hate to bring this up -- there's the potential for misuse.


Obviously we'll require some good faith effort on the part of the posters here. If necessary, I suppose we could always appeal to a mod ( Wink Wink ) to help edit out offensive misuse of the tags.
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heydelores



Joined: 24 Apr 2006

PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And now this thread has been "tagged" with thirty tags already.
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eamo



Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Location: Shepherd's Bush, 1964.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A lot of people are typing multiple words into the search function without using "and" between each word. Read the instructions in smaller print on the left of the search page and you will get much better results. I'll paste then here actually....

You can use AND to define words which must be in the results, OR to define words which may be in the result and NOT to define words which should not be in the result. Use * as a wildcard for partial matches

The biggest problem with the search function for me is that after you have chosen a result, clicked it, read it, then want to go back to all search results, the back page button only brings you to a "page expired" warning. Useless. Why should I to go back and type in the search words again and get fresh results?
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The King of Kwangju



Joined: 10 Feb 2003
Location: New York City

PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As someone who makes websites for a living, and who spend a lot of time working with search engines, this thread is fascinating. It mirrors the history of internet search and is a microcosm of its problems and solutions.

So far you guys are up to about 1998.

I know how this ends, so I'm going to keep quiet.
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JeJuJitsu



Joined: 11 Sep 2005
Location: McDonald's

PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With as much money as he makes, it's quite embarassing that the Dave guy wouldn't spring for proprietary message board software. Particularly surprising when the better ones allow for even more revenue to be generated .
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huffdaddy



Joined: 25 Nov 2005

PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 4:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The King of Kwangju wrote:
As someone who makes websites for a living, and who spend a lot of time working with search engines, this thread is fascinating. It mirrors the history of internet search and is a microcosm of its problems and solutions.

So far you guys are up to about 1998.


Considering that my last programming job was back in 1994, I suppose I'm ahead of my time.

Quote:
I know how this ends, so I'm going to keep quiet.


Does it go something like this? noone tags their posts, or people tag willy nilly eventually defeating the original purpose of the tagging.

Or are we supposed to beg for the answer?
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