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Big_Bird

Joined: 31 Jan 2003 Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 6:02 pm Post subject: UK: Incitement to violence against the muslim community |
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Incitement to violence
The political and media onslaught on Muslims is already fuelling physical attacks on the streets
Daud Abdullah
Tuesday October 17, 2006
The Guardian
Where is this political opportunism taking us? Into the dark tunnel of national strife. The corrosive effect of the political and media onslaught against British Muslims is having its impact on all sections of society. What is claimed to be an assertion of free speech and democratic rights is rapidly becoming the demonisation of a community. Once they are dehumanised, who cares for their democratic, civil or human rights?
Since John Reid demanded that Muslim "bullies" must be faced down and Jack Straw declared the veil a "statement of separation", ministers have fallen over themselves to make increasingly unbridled attacks on Muslims. The shadow home secretary, David Davis, has accused our communities of creating a "voluntary apartheid" and colleges have taken action against veiled teachers and students. The tabloid press has declared open season on Muslims with one hostile front-page story after another.
In practice this has amounted to incitement to violence. In recent weeks verbal and physical attacks on Muslims have surged alarmingly. Women have had their scarves ripped off. Mosques and Islamic centres in Preston and Falkirk have been attacked by mobs and firebombed.
To read full article click here |
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Junior

Joined: 18 Nov 2005 Location: the eye
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Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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I think its a bit exxagerated. Written by a muslim cleric. 2 arson attacks on two separate mosques (that they could have done on purpose to make themselves appear victimised)- hardly represents a dramatic increase in violence.
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The government's refusal for so long to recognise the link between its own disastrous foreign policy in the Muslim world |
Does he mean giving too much food aid? |
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Moldy Rutabaga

Joined: 01 Jul 2003 Location: Ansan, Korea
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Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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"Our leaders threaten to kill them all and a few of us blow up a few buildings, and lately the locals have been all huffy with us! Sheesh, what is it with these people?"
Ken:> |
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Junior

Joined: 18 Nov 2005 Location: the eye
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Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 2:38 am Post subject: |
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After all the aid British folks donated to Pakistan for their earthquake, it must have been a shock to find that the funds were being diverted to fund extremists and that the Pakistani govt wasn't actually doing anything to help its own people. |
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Beej
Joined: 05 Mar 2005 Location: Eungam Loop
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Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:37 am Post subject: |
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Why do you assume that its the media creating these acts and not some sort of retaliation for the bombings and beheadings perpetrated by Muslims? |
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Adventurer

Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 6:57 am Post subject: |
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Some say the continent is betraying its ideals by trying to appease fundamentalists.
By Jeffrey Fleishman
Times Staff Writer
October 16, 2006
BERLIN � In Europe's cafes, the newspapers are as wrinkled as always, the conversations still veer toward the abstract, but tempers these days are riled.
Artists and influential leftists are warning that the rise of radical Islam is threatening the tradition of European liberalism. Theater directors, cartoonists and writers say the continent is betraying its identity by practicing self-censorship aimed at appeasing a fundamentalist Islam they believe is determined to impose its will on free speech and creativity.
The German Opera in Berlin recently canceled its revival of a production of Mozart's "Idomeneo," fearing that a scene showing the severed head of the prophet Muhammad � as well as those of Jesus, Buddha and Poseidon � would anger Islamists.
The decisions are part of what liberals regard as a timidity that emerged after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks in the U.S. and intensified during this year's Muslim protests against a Danish newspaper's cartoon caricatures of Muhammad.
http://fairuse.100webcustomers.com/fuj/latimes97.htm
[I see there is good and bad in all humanity. I prefer democracy rather than dictatorships, and people do not want to mirror the social, political structure of the Middle East; that is understandable.] |
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ddeubel

Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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I found that this editorial in the IHT, brought up several incitful points regarding the issue of "inflaming Muslim's anger".
I am sure after reading it, many will cry "See, they hate us! Let's fight!!!!" rather than look at the CAUSE and ways to shift the debate back into what is right and not just retaliatory.
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Stoking Muslim anger
Fawaz A. Gerges
CAIRO While the U.S. debate over Iraq focuses mainly on the effects of the American military presence on Al Qaeda and its affiliates, the Bush administration has little appreciation for how its involvement in Iraq, as well as its staunch support of Israel, is radicalizing mainstream Muslim opinion.
In the past few weeks I have interviewed scores of Muslim activists, human-rights advocates, Islamists, liberals and ordinary citizens. Most have been telling me that the West, particularly the United States, is waging a modern crusade against Islam.
From high school teachers to taxi drivers, America is seen as a new colonial power. Few Muslims accept the American narrative that touts democracy and freedom. They view America's military presence in the Arab heartland as a sinister plot to divide the world of Islam and subjugate Muslims.
"Look at what America is doing in Iraq," said Hazem Salem, an Egyptian human-rights advocate in his twenties. "America is using democracy as a mask to colonize Muslim lands and to steal our oil." I reminded him that President George W. Bush claims he is promoting democracy in the Arab world. "No, he is promoting chaos and civil war," he fired back.
When I visited the American University in Cairo, which is a stronghold of Western liberalism, many students were openly angry at America's support for Israel. "Bush has given Israel carte blanche to attack Palestinians and Lebanese," Rania, a teenager with strikingly dark eyes, told me in the campus courtyard. "The war on terror is an open-ended war on Muslims," she insisted. Many students at the American University in Beirut expressed similar views.
Recently, I attended an "iftar," an evening meal after the daylong Ramadan fast, with hundreds of prominent Egyptians and Arabs of all political persuasions. The speaker, a moderate political leader and rising star in Egyptian society, said this year's Ramadan coincided with a coordinated attack on Islam. "The Pope has given Bush religious justification for his war on Islam and Muslims," he declared, as guests nodded their heads in agreement.
I have not met a taxi driver, a fruit vendor or a teacher who does not see a connection between the Danish cartoons portraying Prophet Muhammad as a terrorist, President George W. Bush's use of the term Islamo-fascism, and Pope Benedict XVI's remarks linking Islam and violence.
Of course, leading European countries opposed the American venture in Iraq. The pope also said that the U.S.-led invasion and occupation of Iraq is unjust, and opposed Israel's indiscriminate tactics against the Palestinians and the Lebanese. But in terms of quelling Muslim anger, this is all irrelevant because most Muslims see the West as united.
An Islamic leader, Abed al- Rahim Barakat, said, "President Bush himself used the word 'crusade' to describe his war on terror." "It was a slip of tongue," I retorted. "No, it was a Freudian slip. He revealed what he feels deep inside," he said.
Five years after the Sept. 11 attacks, Al Qaeda's notion of a clash of religions is no longer farfetched. In both camps, there exist tiny minorities who are beating the drums, and rallying the faithful to fight in a war they believe was caused by the other.
By staying the course in Iraq, Bush plays into the hands of extremists and alienates the floating middle of Muslim public opinion. If America really wants to win the war against Al Qaeda and its affiliates, it needs the hearts and minds of mainstream Muslims.
The bottom line is that a way must be found - and soon - to extract American troops from Iraq's shifting sands and to stop the shedding of Jewish and Palestinian blood.
Fawaz A. Gerges, a Carnegie Scholar and visiting professor at the American University in Cairo, is the author of "Journey of the Jihadist: Inside Muslim Militancy." |
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Adventurer

Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 9:36 am Post subject: |
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Ddeubel, that article is interesting. I want to touch on something - Bush's use of the word Crusade. America's leaders were more secular in tone than George Bush. Such a word would have been considered unthinkable by a president of the United States. It might be an indication that he is biased by a provincial, religious way of looking at the world as the Muslim cleric stated. Yet, even if that is true, many of the Muslims who oppose him would be the other side of the same coin, so to speak.
The War in Iraq was launched despite the opposition of most countries, and it was launched without the approval of the United Nations. So it was viewed as a war where the United States was exerting hegemony over the region. That hegemony was viewed as being anti-Islamic. Its very pro-Israeli stance, without a significant pretense in balance, for a long time helped reinforce those views among those in the Near East. He sought to have a more balanced image regarding the Palestinian issue, but it was kind of late in the game. The damage was done.
No matter what George Bush or Tony Blair have done, it does not excuse some of the virulent pro-Al qaeda thoughts, attacks on innocent Western civilians etc.... Of course, we also must ask what concern has been really given to the deaths of civilians down there. If we did, maybe we wouldn't have so many problems. |
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ddeubel

Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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Adventurer,
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No matter what George Bush or Tony Blair have done, it does not excuse some of the virulent pro-Al qaeda thoughts, attacks on innocent Western civilians etc.... |
I think that should be self-evident to all people.
Still, the point of the article has to heard as a bell call for the West to start winning hearts and minds and stop with the one-sided approach. There is a vaaaaaaaaaast middle ground in the Muslim world. It is there, by tilling this soil well and fertilizing it properly that the West will win against said "terrorists" . No other way around it.
So many in the West say, "I don't give a ....." what they think. That is wrong and I think much of it comes from being withdrawn from the world, insular and from a lack of foreign information, travel and dialogue. Fortunately, new surveys show that young Americans are becoming much more internationally and culturally aware and sensitive, through travel, education, work. Never too late and this bodes well for the future as long it stays away from quasi evangelical presidents and profiteers.
Back on the farm, we didn't clean out the manure by shooting the cows and calling them all dirty beasts. We took out the shit, shovel by shovel.........
DD |
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Beej
Joined: 05 Mar 2005 Location: Eungam Loop
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Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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ddeubel wrote: |
Adventurer,
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No matter what George Bush or Tony Blair have done, it does not excuse some of the virulent pro-Al qaeda thoughts, attacks on innocent Western civilians etc.... |
I think that should be self-evident to all people.
Still, the point of the article has to heard as a bell call for the West to start winning hearts and minds and stop with the one-sided approach. There is a vaaaaaaaaaast middle ground in the Muslim world. It is there, by tilling this soil well and fertilizing it properly that the West will win against said "terrorists" . No other way around it.
So many in the West say, "I don't give a ....." what they think. That is wrong and I think much of it comes from being withdrawn from the world, insular and from a lack of foreign information, travel and dialogue. Fortunately, new surveys show that young Americans are becoming much more internationally and culturally aware and sensitive, through travel, education, work. Never too late and this bodes well for the future as long it stays away from quasi evangelical presidents and profiteers.
Back on the farm, we didn't clean out the manure by shooting the cows and calling them all dirty beasts. We took out the *beep*, shovel by shovel.........
DD |
Yes but if you dont kill the cows they will continue to schitt forever. |
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ddeubel

Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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Yes but if you dont kill the cows they will continue to schitt forever. |
Thank you for standing up as a practical example of the idiocy I've been labeling so often here.... unfortunately you are not alone and that is why America is no better off....
DD |
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Junior

Joined: 18 Nov 2005 Location: the eye
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Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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If you were wise you'd sell the schitt as manure, milk the cows for all they were worth, before killing and eating them |
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