Korean Job Discussion Forums

[chilgok007]

Why don't Western adults get the same level of respect from Korean children as Korean adults?

A couple of instances~

1) Most obvious of all is when a Korean adult- any Korean adult, peaks his or her head into my classroom. My classes are under control, and the students listen to what I say, but they're a great deal more relaxed around me (and all the other FTs at my school) than around Koreans. As soon as the gaze of a Korean adult passes into their view, the students become dead silent and sit up straight as boards, while a look of intense concentration comes across their faces.


2) One of my 7 year old students often stays after school (his mom is a secretary at my academy). One day he helped me move a bunch things so I offered to reward him by taking him to the convenience store downstairs to buy a candy bar. On the way, an older Korean man approached us and, ignoring me, he yelled at the student, telling him to go back to class. Instantly, the student had a frightened look on his face and began to retreat. "No, no, it's OK, Chulsu, I'm your teacher and I say it's OK." The kid protested and looked like he was about to cry. I was shocked that he would rather listen to a complete stranger than someone who sees him for several hours everyday. Eventually, the student ran back upstairs without his candy.

3) I'm pretty big on respect, so I usually enforce the rule that the students refer to teachers (including myself) as "ZZZ teacher." Usually, despite my efforts, a lot of the students inevitably call me "YYY." The other day one of my students brought a Korean book to class and declared that the book was for "XXX's" class (XXX being a Korean teacher who teaches a Korean-language class). All of the other students immediately stopped what they were doing and admonished their classmate. "NO! XXX is a teacher, you must call her XXX teacher!" This lesson on good etiquette went on for several minutes, yet, none of the students ever protested when one of their peers referred to my colleagues or me by the their given names without the honorific suffix.

4) I was a few minutes late for class, and one of my kindergarten students came to fetch me. "발리 와!" She demanded. I started noticing a lot of instances in which the students used "impolite" language to a foreign adult. I asked a student to color in her workbook. A plain "싫어!" was her response. I've actually been trying to correct their Korean. They just laugh at me. The KTs at my school make little effort to correct these indiscretions. But of course, if a student spoke to a Korean teacher in the same way, they'd probably be slapped.

5) Students love to say "no" outright when I (or another FT) give them orders (especially when punishment is concerned). This is by far one of my biggest grievances. Imagine if a student protested like that in a Western school- It would be a definite suspension for insubordination.


Any guesses as to why this happens? Korean adults treat me with the same respect they would profer upon a fellow adult, so why don't the kids? And, it's not just the veteran students. New students do it too. I was once told foreigners don't even register when it comes to the Korean social hierarchy, but if we're expected to do a serious job, it's hard to imagine doing so when we're not treated seriously. Anybody have any explanations to offer up?

[Canadian Club]

My students all call me XXX teacher, but I have ONE who will say "no" to me and it drivess me nuts. I'll repeat what I told him over and over and over until he stops saying "no" and does what I say, and he does it FAR less frequently than when I first came, but it still bothers me a lot. The Korean teachers all say that they know he has a bad attitude, but I doubt that he tries to defy them in such an outright way.

[Qinella]

[RACETRAITOR]

I have a theory why kids don't show adult foreigners enough respect. It's hard to communicate with them.

[SPINOZA]

OP,

Knowing my luck, you probably are a qualified teacher back home, but if you're not, I do not feel you are owed the title 선생님;. If you're not qualified to teach in your country and certainly not qualified to teach (in the same way the Korean teachers are) in Korea, I cannot for the life of me feel why you think this is your entitlement. Teachers in Korea who are qualified teachers back home I believe should be referred to as 선생님. Everyone must be made aware that whitey is - in fact - a teacher, educated and trained in the field of, er, teaching.

However, my assumption is that you're a degree-holder in a subject irrelevant to education from an English-speaking country, as are the vast majority of people who make this old complaint. "Been to school" and "born in [insert your country's name]" is about the extent of your qualifications. You have not been through the process the Korean teachers have that makes them 선생님s, thus I fail to see why you, or I, should be referred to as that. You are not a songsaengnim because that term refers to a process, a system that you don't even know anything about, much less graduated from.

Your belief that you should be called the same thing as the Korean teachers stems from your culture that has given you a false sense of equality. Political correctness doesn't exist here. You believe that because you're human you're equal - it's not a bad view at all - but it's not the only view possible. All you are doing is bringing your cultural belief system into an assessment on a country that's very different and frankly it means you're showing a lack of respect for other belief-system possibilities.

I've thought about this too of course and for about 5 seconds it bothered me, I felt like a member of der untermensch here in this nation of the transcendent super-race. Then I realized that my kids actually genuinely like me, and I like them. Kids can do no wrong for me, for the most part. As long as I feel liked, as long as they concentrate and show evidence of interest and learning, I'm happy. For me, like and respect are synonyms. Reluctant, fearful bows and 안녕하세요s to 무서운 선생님who whacked their hand yesterday is not respect, manners because they have to do it is not necessarily (and often isn't) respect, it's inferior to my relationship with my kids.

I detest being called "teacher" because it's impersonal. I wanna be called SPIN - not even "SPIN teacher". I don't wanna be called "Mr OZA" either because my (real) surname has 4 syllables, including an 'l' and an 'r' and I fail to see why I, who's got a free ticket abroad because he can speak English fluently (not because he's learnt it, but rather because it's his native language) should adopt a western-style teacher-title. My first name is easy, and after all, it's my name.

Respect issues are laughable I'm afraid.

That said, if some kid is genuinely rude like says 몰라 when I ask them something, I shall see to it that they are punished. Generally speaking, kids are cool as hell.

Another thing - K-kids are taught that Western people don't bow. They're taught that we have different manners and bowing to us isn't understood and isn't necessary. Some kids do bow and think nothing of it, some don't. Many of my best and favorite students don't. It means nothing. Really, they should be taught to bow to us too because there are a number of freaks who take deep offence to it and that in the West we have a freakish obsession with "it's not fair". But in reality, it doesn't necessarily carry the "Koreans are the best race in the world and foreigners don't deserve the same respect" thing.

[ChopChaeJoe]

As stated above, you don't fit within the hierarchy of Korean society. I ould worry more about teaching english and less about some mythical respect that you feel you are owed.

I never much respected my teachers growing up, certainly not some kooky auslander that can't even speak the language as well as a bright kindergartner.

Now, if they're being rude to you in English, that's another story.


So what if some little kid doesn't get his candy. Maybe the ajoshi would tell his dad he left school and the kid gets a beating. how do you know? Do them a favor -- teach to the best of your ability, show them a bit of kindness, respect, tolerance, and understanding, and they will love you in the end.

[Qinella]

Spinoza, let me axe you a quick querstion: How many of your university professors were trained to be teachers?

[okokok]

They just see us differently and I guess there's not much you can do about it. It begins at a young age. For example, I am teaching at Korean kindergartens during the mornings. I am at a different school each day and I see the kids for 20-30 minutes once a week.
As soon as I walk into the school, 100 kids yell and shout at me. They shout 'monkey teacher!', or 'xxx teacher, xxx teacher!, XXX TEACHER!!!'.
Later, when I've finished the lesson and I'm leaving a classroom or walking to the next class past a line of kids, they insist on hitting me. They don't mean anything bad by it (my gf reminds me that they do it because they 'like me'), but after you get slapped and hit by 300 different students every morning of the week, it starts to wear on you. I've never seen a Korean student hit a Korean teacher. They don't yell at the Korean teachers, they don't call the Korean teachers names. The Korean teachers stand by and never teach the kids not to do this kind of stuff. I try to explain to the kids 'don't hit your teacher', and the Korean teachers never pick up on it or help my cause.
They just don't treat us the same as a Korean teacher. I'm not arguing if they should or shouldn't, but I am of the opinion that overall, Korean children do not show foreigners enough respect. I don't care if you have an Education degree or whatever, you flew halfway around the world, you are a human being, you deserve a degree of respect.
I remember another example during my first year at a hagwon. There was an exceptionally bad student in one of my classes. I had had a few run ins with him. One day I walked into the institute after lunch and he was in the lobby and he shouts out 'Dong-ko!'. The director of my school was right there and didn't say anything. At the time, I didn't know what the word meant, but later got the translation.
What I'm trying to get at with this post is that I believe the problem lies with the adults in this country. It has been said that for a foreigner who doesn't speak the language well to lecture the kids on bad behavior is pretty much useless. However there are plenty of opportunities for adults to teach the kids right from wrong, but they simply don't care.
I'm sure most of us who've been here for some time have walked down the street, and had a kid in a car sticking his head out of the window yelling at you, and his parents just ignore it. They never say 'hey, don't yell out at strangers!'. I'm sure you've been harassed in one form or another by the hello-chorus or such, but have you ever witnessed anybody mentioning to the kids to stop bothering the foreigner. I've never seen it.
My only point is that we are helpless in many ways. Sure, if you've been at one place long enough to train them well, good for you. But overall, Koreans are the only ones that can relay this information, and as I said before, I've never seen it done.

[Return Jones]

[Qinella]

[Satori]

When I was a hagwon teacher I just demanded respect, as in completely non negotiable, but I was not concerned about being called "teacher", more that they listen when was talking. I had to get physical sometimes to enforce it, but not often. You're not supposed to hurt the kids, and it's totally not supported by the Korean staff, but it's effective. Just don't do anything that looks bad if you have cameras in your class. Grab the finger nail and squeeze down on it, you wont have to do it more than twice. Oh, and my kids loved me to death, gave me big hugs all the time, learned a lot, and all cried profusely when I left.

[minorthreat]

[jajdude]

When I hear TV shows like the one I heard earlier on my way to the store,
where the adults are doing this ridiculous mockery of English, then I see why kids follow suit:

"Oh, thank you, very, very, much. Nice to meet you. Where are you from?"

"Uh huh, that's great, you are so wonderful. I love you." (ha ha ha ha )

All in this sickening syrupy voice,... god, if they heard foreigners make fun of Korean this way, they'd be offended, guaranteed.

We've all heard this nonsense, and that is also an insult. Proof of the psychology (insecurity) towards foreigners and English.

[Jamin]

This is one of my major pet peeves livinging in Korea. These days I am confident enough in my Korean to quickly scold a young person if they are impolite. In all cases, the students will apologize. In my neighborhood now, all the students know who I am. I am greeted with the proper amount of respect. It really is amazing how much you feel part of a place once people place you within thier cultural constructs. It is my experience as well that the koreans feel more comfortable too.

A quick point on culture. The word "teacher" does not mean someone who went to school and has learned educational theory and now works in the school system. It in fact is a term of respect indicating that the person they are referring to is older and has more knowledge than themselves.

If you are in a position of authority then the term "teacher" is one of the appropriate ways they should address you regardless of your educational background. They should not at any time address you using your given name. Allowing students to do this implies to them, even if it doesn't to you, that your relationship is at the level of friend. In our culture this is a good thing but in Korean culture such a title of "friend" if very disrspectfull if applied to anyone older than themselves. If you let the students use your first name, don't be surprised if thier level of respect for you doen't match your expectation.

I think it is important to remember that even though a person may be using English words those words may hold a completely different meaning for them. When directing students as to what words they should use, we should keep in mind the meaning of those concepts in thier minds.

[Gwangjuboy]