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tiger fancini
Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Location: Testicles for Eyes
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 Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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I'm surprised he didn't put up more of a fight - the man has some pretty nifty kung fu skillz...
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| Robert M. Gates nominated to replace him. Good choice |
Uh... riiiight. We exchange a War Hawk for a Disinformation Artist:
Rumsfeld quits; Bush taps Gates
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By ROBERT BURNS and KATHERINE SHRADER, Associated Press Writers
WASHINGTON - After years of defending his secretary of defense, President Bush on Wednesday announced Donald H. Rumsfeld's resignation within hours of the Democrats' triumph in congressional elections. Bush reached back to his father's administration to tap a former CIA director to run the Pentagon.
The Iraq war was the central issue of Rumsfeld's nearly six-year tenure, and unhappiness with the war was a major element of voter dissatisfaction Tuesday � and the main impetus for his departure. Even some GOP lawmakers became critical of the war's management, and growing numbers of politicians were urging Bush to replace Rumsfeld.
Bush said Robert Gates, 63, who has served in a variety of national security jobs under six previous presidents, would be nominated to replace Rumsfeld. Gates, currently the president of Texas A&M University, is a Bush family friend and a member of an independent group studying the way ahead in Iraq.
The White House hopes that replacing Rumsfeld with Gates can help refresh U.S. policy on the deeply unpopular war and perhaps establish a stronger rapport with the new Congress. Rumsfeld had a rocky relationship with many lawmakers. |
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| ...In brief remarks, Rumsfeld described the Iraq conflict as a "little understood, unfamiliar war" that is "complex for people to comprehend." |
Way to go out, Rummy: insulting the intelligence of the majority of Americans...
Back to Gates...
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Gates took over the CIA as acting director in 1987, when William Casey was terminally ill with cancer. Questions were raised about Gates' knowledge of the Iran-Contra affair, and he withdrew from consideration to take over the CIA permanently. Yet he stayed on as deputy director...
Gates won confirmation, but only after hearings in which he was accused by CIA officials of manipulating intelligence as a senior analyst in the 1980s.
Melvin Goodman, a former CIA division chief for Soviet affairs, testified that Gates politicized the intelligence on Iran, Nicaragua, Afghanistan and the Soviet Union. "Gates' role in this activity was to corrupt the process and the ethics of intelligence on all of these issues," Goodman testified. |
Sound familiar???
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| The Bush administration's use of intelligence on Iraq has been a central theme of criticism from Democrats who say the White House stretched faulty intelligence from U.S. spy agencies to justify invading Iraq in 2003. |
Oh, yeah. That's where we heard this theme before...
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| Gates is a close friend of the Bush family, and particularly the first President Bush... |
Gee, what a surprise. |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| People have accustomed themselves so long into accepting the allegation that the United States was no longer a democracy, that they cannot understand this announcement. "What really explains this?" they ask. |
That's arrogance comparable to Bush and Rumsfeld themselves. |
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Paji eh Wong
Joined: 03 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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Lovely. In related news, I got 2 cans of coffee from the vending machine for the price of 1.
Today will be a good day. |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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More on Gates:
Bob Gates, He's Back
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by
Larry C Johnson
Before the media goes overboard extolling the virtues of Bob Gates as the replacement for Don Rumsfeld, it is important to look back at Gates' record and reputation. Gates has some "splaining" to do. The press has forgotten that Bob Gates, during his time at CIA, acquired a reputation for trying to tailor intelligence to satisfy political masters in the Reagan White House. In addition, Bob Gates, a man of enormous intellect and a photographic memory, conveniently forgot salient facts and meetings surrounding the Iran Contra scandal.
The doubts about Gates surfaced during confirmation hearings held in the fall of 1991 to consider his nomination to become the Director of CIA. Irionically, the questions then are still relevant today. Several analysts came out publically against Gates. These included Melvin Goodman and Harold Ford. A New York Times piece by Elaine Sciolino captured the mood of the 1991 hearings:
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Three witnesses testified that Mr. Gates slanted intelligence analysis as a senior agency official in the 1980's, while two others defended him. . . .Mr. Gates's detractors assert that the slanting of intelligence was largely confined to issues involving the Soviet Union, Soviet expansionism and C.I.A. covert operations. . . .
The most dramatic testimony came from Melvin A. Goodman, a former division chief in Soviet affairs. He accused Mr. Gates of imposing his political judgments on intelligence analyses without any evidence to back his views, of suppressing his analysts' conclusions, of corrupting the agency's stringent analytical process and of misusing personnel -- "judge shopping the courthouse," Mr. Goodman called it -- until the desired analysis was produced.
But the more reflective testimony of another witness, Harold Ford, although less explosive than Mr. Goodman's, could carry more weight with the committee. Mr. Ford, a 30-year veteran of the agency who has extensively written and lectured on ethics in public policy, described his personal agony before deciding that out of loyalty to the agency, he could not support the nominee. Adding to the difficulty of his choice, Mr. Ford is a C.I.A. contract employee who would report to Mr. Gates, if he is confirmed. |
One of the analysts who spoke in favor of Gates was Lawrence Gershwin. Gershwin, the national intelligence officer for strategic programs, subsequently played a critical role in drafting and promoting the flawed October 2002 National Intelligence Estimate on Iraq.
Mel's experience with Gates is consistent with mine. I remember talking to the South African analyst back in 1988, who told me about the time Bob Gates tried to change the lede on an intelligence piece, which argued that Nelson Mandela was NOT a communist. Gates wanted the lede to say that Mandela was a communist. The analyst kicked back hard and ultimately prevailed, but this behavior was consistent with his reputation as a political animal willing to curry favor with the political masters downtown and sacrifice sound analysis.
There is no denying that Bob Gates has a distinguished resume and, by virtue of experience, is as qualified as any to run the Department of Defense. But it is incumbent on Senators during the upcoming confirmation hearings to insist that Gates fully commit to keep his fingers out of cooking intelligence and promise to tell the President uncomfortable truths even if they are politically inconvenient. He had trouble doing that during his tenure at CIA. Hopefully, with the passage of time, he has grown some spine and learned the importance of integrity. |
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khyber
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Compunction Junction
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| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| ...In brief remarks, Rumsfeld described the Iraq conflict as a "little understood, unfamiliar war" that is "complex for people to comprehend." |
What a brilliant quote!
Strange it wasn't uttered 2 years ago. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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| khyber wrote: |
| Quote: |
| ...In brief remarks, Rumsfeld described the Iraq conflict as a "little understood, unfamiliar war" that is "complex for people to comprehend." |
What a brilliant quote!
Strange it wasn't uttered 2 years ago. |
Well, apparently Rumsfeld did not understand Iraq, and he did not apologize to the American people the way Kerry was made to apologize.
Anyway, the huge blunders in Iraq that have cost America so many soldiers' lives, billions of wasted tax payers' money should call for the resignation of Cheney as well, since he pushed the war. I think there should be hearings regarding what happened. I don't think it is extreme to call for a serious inquiry as to this administration's conduct. There are plenty of reasons to do so including 300 plus billion dollars in spent and misspent money, and about 3,000 dead soldiers, fighting a war on two fronts when one was not over and now both missions are in jeopardy.
The soldiers risked their lives based on something they believe in, and some people enlisted based on certain ideas put forward by their government. A war was fought on two fronts, and now the war is being lost in Afghanistan and Iraq at the moment. Rumsfeld is just the guy being made to take the fall. Enron executives were made accountable for things that didn't lead to people dying, and they went to jail. I think Rumsfeld's resignation is not enough. |
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Pligganease
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: The deep south...
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| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
We are probably thinking too hard about this.
This announcement came just after W. Bush's chat with Speaker Nancy Pelosi, who now carries about as much weight as you can get in Washington.
Politics have shifted. This forced changes. Not surprising for a constitutional democracy.
People have accustomed themselves so long into accepting the allegation that the United States was no longer a democracy, that they cannot understand this announcement. "What really explains this?" they ask.
But Pelosi very likely said something like this: "Rumsfeld has to go. He resigns or we come after him." W. Bush, who was loyal to Rumsfeld to a fault, which was entirely in character for him, waited until he had no other option before him, until the bitter end. (I've seen many examples of politicians, throughout world history, doing such things.)
And that's all she wrote. |
This really does say a lot. Especially this...
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Politics have shifted. This forced changes. Not surprising for a constitutional democracy.
People have accustomed themselves so long into accepting the allegation that the United States was no longer a democracy, that they cannot understand this announcement. "What really explains this?" they ask. |
Bush, for some ungodly reason, supported Rumsfeld through thick and thin. You can call Bush what you want to call him, but you have to admit that he is loyal to the people who are loyal to him.
Now, you have a situation where oversight power has been given almost exclusively to the Democrats, much like the Clinton administration during the Lewinski years. No one wants to go through that.
This is what makes America great. The people have spoken. |
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Pligganease
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: The deep south...
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| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Adventurer wrote: |
| Rumsfeld is just the guy being made to take the fall. Enron executives were made accountable for things that didn't lead to people dying, and they went to jail. I think Rumsfeld's resignation is not enough. |
Not comparable. Enron execs were deliberate in their intent to steal money from people.
Rumsfeld is just a moron who knew no better. He's not just the guy who is being made to take the fall. He is the man who directed war policy in both arenas. He was the one who made most of the mistakes. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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| And Dems take the Senate. Where's the emoticon for crying without the frowning face? |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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| tiger fancini wrote: |
I'm surprised he didn't put up more of a fight - the man has some pretty nifty kung fu skillz...
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Haha! Loved it! |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Pligganease wrote: |
| He's not just the guy who is being made to take the fall. He is the man who directed war policy in both arenas. He was the one who made most of the mistakes. |
Ain't that the truth?
This move is so long overdue that if it were a library book it would have been declared "lost" by now... |
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Kimchi Cowboy
Joined: 17 Sep 2006
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| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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| tiger fancini wrote: |
I'm surprised he didn't put up more of a fight - the man has some pretty nifty kung fu skillz...
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In a few of those pics, he looks a lot like the Emperor (formerly Senator Palpatine) from Return of the Jedi & Revenge of the Sith...
(...minus the bolts of lightning I'm sure he wishes were shooting from his outstretched hands, that is...) |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:46 am Post subject: |
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I thought this picture rather apt, given his new circumstances...
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:54 am Post subject: |
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| Pligganease wrote: |
| Adventurer wrote: |
| Rumsfeld is just the guy being made to take the fall. Enron executives were made accountable for things that didn't lead to people dying, and they went to jail. I think Rumsfeld's resignation is not enough. |
Not comparable. Enron execs were deliberate in their intent to steal money from people.
Rumsfeld is just a moron who knew no better. He's not just the guy who is being made to take the fall. He is the man who directed war policy in both arenas. He was the one who made most of the mistakes. |
I think he still has a case to answer. For example, even if you don't deliberately kill someone with intent, you can still be jailed for manslaughter in many cases. This is because our society considers life very precious, and there needs to be a consequence for negligent actions that result in the unnecessary loss of it. He played fast and loose with people's lives. And Cheney - he played fast and loose with people's lives in the interests of turning a profit and lining his own pockets. Scoundrel. |
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