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Allah hu akbar in Minnesota...
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sundubuman



Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: seoul

PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't hate anyone. I for one, as would virtually every Republican I know, abhor any openly religious chanting at an election celebration. It's uncalled for and well, just a bit creepy. And please, find me an example (at the federal CONGRESSIONAL level) where folks on the podium of an elected member engaged in religious chanting......

I could care less if the President of the United States were atheist, Muslim, Jewish, Mormon, Animist, blah blah blah...


But what BOTHERS me is this open chanting of a religious nature......

and the WILLFUL BLINDNESS of the winning party in regards to it.
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huffdaddy



Joined: 25 Nov 2005

PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bucheon bum wrote:
huffdaddy, you're from MN right?


Technically, Minneapolis is my American home. But in my heart, I'm from Chicago.

Quote:
You voted for him didn't you?


Embarassed November snuck up on me a little too quick.
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huffdaddy



Joined: 25 Nov 2005

PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sundubuman wrote:

But what BOTHERS me is this open chanting of a religious nature......


You may be right. Would it upset you to learn that Ellison was having weekly conference calls with an assortment of imams? And that several prominent imams had a direct liason on Ellison's staff? I think the MSS should look into that.
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Adventurer



Joined: 28 Jan 2006

PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When calling for secularism, you must be consistent. George Bush used the word Crusade which is often used in Evangelical circles, not Catholic circles. That is very uncharacteristic of past presidents. There was also a speech where Bush spoke about how the terrorists wanted Americans on their knees, and they were on their knees, implying in prayer. Bush has used the gay issue as a wedge issue. He has resembled many of the Middle Eastern leaders who used religion as a weapon against the liberals and moderates of their country to consolidate power. I think when you
make your comments, you should take that into consideration. Maybe you ignored it because Bush said it in English rather than those fellows on tape who said what they said in Arabic.

Allah Huwa Akbar to Muslims literally means, as we understand, to mean God, He is Great". Why is that so offensive? I personally don't like overtly religious tones used in association with politicians because I believe it corrupts religion but faith politics is part of the U.S. framework.
We can't simply make religious Evangelicals and Muslims check out their religious beliefs as it may contradict the spirit of the constitution of not allowing religion to rule over the land. You are being an alarmist because they are using religious words in the Arabic tongue. Unfortunately, not enough people have been alarmed at the way Bush and his cohorts invoked God and how they spoke to God on their way to leading us to this sorry abyss in Iraq. Anyway, are the Democrats supposed to condemn Muslims for invoking God when so many in American politics do? It would send a very, very, very bad message.
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sundubuman



Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: seoul

PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

no that doesn't bother me. that's his perogative. and as the sole Muslim in congress, it is only likely that he will be called upon to confer/consult with Muslim leaders.


However, as an American, his duty is also to disavow the religious chanting that erupted (not just in the crowd but on his podium!) at his victory celebration.

It's a very very very INAUSPICIOUS way for the first Muslim to enter Congress.

And again, mark my words, the silence with which this was greeted by the Democrats will go down in history...



Especially considering the Jihadi times we all live in.
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sundubuman



Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: seoul

PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adventurer wrote:
When calling for secularism, you must be consistent. George Bush used the word Crusade which is often used in Evangelical circles, not Catholic circles. That is very uncharacteristic of past presidents. There was also a speech where Bush spoke about how the terrorists wanted Americans on their knees, and they were on their knees, implying in prayer. Bush has used the gay issue as a wedge issue. He has resembled many of the Middle Eastern leaders who used religion as a weapon against the liberals and moderates of their country to consolidate power. I think when you
make your comments, you should take that into consideration. Maybe you ignored it because Bush said it in English rather than those fellows on tape who said what they said in Arabic.

Allah Huwa Akbar to Muslims literally means, as we understand, to mean God, He is Great". Why is that so offensive? I personally don't like overtly religious tones used in association with politicians because I believe it corrupts religion but faith politics is part of the U.S. framework.
We can't simply make religious Evangelicals and Muslims check out their religious beliefs as it may contradict the spirit of the constitution of not allowing religion to rule over the land. You are being an alarmist because they are using religious words in the Arabic tongue. Unfortunately, not enough people have been alarmed at the way Bush and his cohorts invoked God and how they spoke to God on their way to leading us to this sorry abyss in Iraq. Anyway, are the Democrats supposed to condemn Muslims for invoking God when so many in American politics do? It would send a very, very, very bad message.





more moral equivalancy self patty-cake.....


it's beyond pathetic that liberals in the west can somehow exert more intellectual energy on the rights of Muslims in a free west than the rights of non-Muslims in a totalitarian Saudi Arabia....


Absolutely fascinating......too bad Asimov isn't still with us, he'd certainly find something profound in the cognitive dissonance of it all.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Technically, Minneapolis


Then technically, you probably know my cousin Janie. She's the one with the big boobs.
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On the other hand



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sundubuman wrote:

Quote:
I'm not worried about anything.

I'm just waiting for one of you idiotarians to stop the moral equivalency crap and say unequivocally that this video is disturbing.


Quote:
France/Eurabia apparently has a happy toehold in a Minnesota congressional district.....


First, you say that you're not worried, that your only concern is that those who condemn the Christian Right should also condemn Ellison's supporters.

Then, you turn around and haul out the Eurabia boogeyman, which kind of makes it sound like you are indeed worried.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
which kind of makes it sound like you are indeed worried


I'm not sure if 'worried' is the right word. At this point, he strikes me as petulant about having his world-view overwhelmingly rejected. Out-right whining is next on the emotional agenda, complaining that the right is being demonized and victimized. (See any article where middle class white Christian males complain that they have been 'left out' of the political mix in spite of electing 43 straight middle class white Christian males to the presidency.)

Probably the best way to get an understanding of the mind-set is to read about the psychological state of true-believers in Communism when their government dissolved in front of their eyes, leaving them to explain how the 'reality' they took as fact was based on fantasy.
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sundubuman



Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: seoul

PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am worried about the future of our nation's 2-party system.

That's about it.

In general I was pleased with the fact that the Democrats took control of Congress, such a change in lpower is good for democracy..


but after learning about the Allahu Akbar celebration in MN....and moreover...

the DEAFENING silence regarding it in the MSM/Democratic Party since then.....


I dunno, seems like we Republicans are again getting ready to fight a mental/intellectual/ethical retard.....

which is always unpleasant.....democracy thrives on respected opposition...

I'd expect more of a worthy opponent than remaining SILENT regarding the FIRST-EVER chant of Allah hu Akbar in the Electoral Process.......


Sooo soo sad........just when it seemed like real debate might get going.........
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On the other hand



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I'd expect more of a worthy opponent than remaining SILENT regarding the FIRST-EVER chant of Allah hu Akbar in the Electoral Process.......


Well, if this is such a major issue, are any high-level Republicans making a big deal out of it? You'd think they would be all over this, if it really is as ominously significant as you say.
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sundubuman



Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: seoul

PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya-ta Boy wrote:
Quote:
which kind of makes it sound like you are indeed worried


I'm not sure if 'worried' is the right word. At this point, he strikes me as petulant about having his world-view overwhelmingly rejected. Out-right whining is next on the emotional agenda, complaining that the right is being demonized and victimized. (See any article where middle class white Christian males complain that they have been 'left out' of the political mix in spite of electing 43 straight middle class white Christian males to the presidency.)

Probably the best way to get an understanding of the mind-set is to read about the psychological state of true-believers in Communism when their government dissolved in front of their eyes, leaving them to explain how the 'reality' they took as fact was based on fantasy.


will you allow me to publish this on toilet paper? For that's the only way it'll ever see the printed light of day. I attack your thoughts, you attack me. Typical lefty.


Question for you.....if you were at Ellison's party and dozens of anti-Bushistas chanted Allah Hu Akbar.....


Would you have?

A. Felt instant revuslion at religion being brought into a national election

or

B. A multicultural thrill at being amidst those fighting against historical injustice


Enlighten us....
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sundubuman



Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: seoul

PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the other hand wrote:
Quote:
I'd expect more of a worthy opponent than remaining SILENT regarding the FIRST-EVER chant of Allah hu Akbar in the Electoral Process.......


Well, if this is such a major issue, are any high-level Republicans making a big deal out of it? You'd think they would be all over this, if it really is as ominously significant as you say.



Call me a futurist.

They'll figure it out soon....it's already all over the anti-idiotarian blogosphere.

The MSM won't touch it for fear of offending "Orthodox Multuculturalists" btw, that's the first time those two words have been formed together, according to google...

Some of us live in the future, instead of reliving college....


orthodox multiculturalists......

coined here on eslcafe.com 11/11/06 thank you Pepero....
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sundubuman



Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: seoul

PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

which begs the question....


are you an


orthodox multiculturalist?



gotta get the term out there if it is to survive Smile
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huffdaddy



Joined: 25 Nov 2005

PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sundubuman wrote:

Question for you.....if you were at Ellison's party and dozens of anti-Bushistas chanted Allah Hu Akbar.....

Would you have?

A. Felt instant revuslion at religion being brought into a national election

or

B. A multicultural thrill at being amidst those fighting against historical injustice


Knowing that Ellison isn't a hard-line fanatical Muslim, it wouldn't have bothered me a bit. I can deal with the mentioning of G-d by almost every politician, entertainer, and athlete in the US. I'm not sure why you are suddenly offended by one such display. Where have you been for the last 250 years?

If Ellison was one of those politicians who used G-d as a crutch, or used religion as a justification for vengeful personal beliefs, then yes, it would have been revolting.

Quote:
no that doesn't bother me. that's his perogative. and as the sole Muslim in congress, it is only likely that he will be called upon to confer/consult with Muslim leaders.

However, as an American, his duty is also to disavow the religious chanting that erupted (not just in the crowd but on his podium!) at his victory celebration.


I have no idea how you can logically accept these two diametrically opposite viewpoints. Point 1: It's okay to be influenced, even heavily influenced by religious leaders. Point 2: It's not okay to allow religious chanting. Hmm, which one of these is a greater intrusion of religion on secular politics? Which one should we be more worried about?

Sounds like someone's got himself a case of the double standards to me.
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