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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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 Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 10:32 pm Post subject: |
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| wannago wrote: |
| bucheon bum wrote: |
| none of the people arguing that raising the minimum wage hurts anyone in the long run have come up with even one article or study to show otherwise. impressive. |
Okay, smart ass, here's several articles and studies. Aren't liberals just the most arrogant SOB's? Read away, einstein.
http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba/ba499/
http://www.geocities.com/fountoftruth/minwage.html
This one from Bloomberg
Oh wait, and don't forget to model yourself after BLTsandwich and attack the sources now that you have a few. |
Well, none of these articles address the effect of minimum wage on inflation, which is what you have been emphasizing. That the minimum wage has not been keeping pace with inflation indicates that someone else has been benefiting from those price increase. Given the law of decreasing marginal utility, it makes more sense to pass some of that money to the less wealthy.
The effect on employment is debatable. Economic studies are always very difficult to preform because you lack the basis of hard scientific inquiry - namely a control group. But a majority of the more recent studies, examining the minimum wage at both federal and state levels, find the effects to be minimal.
Overall, there may well be some costs associated with a raise in the minimum wage. The important questions are, who will bear the brunt of those costs, and whether or not those costs are exceeded by the benefits achieved by a raise in the minimum wage. More importantly, how can we improve the lives of the less fortunate. The minimum wage is a small step, but it really fails to address the root causes. |
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Satori
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Above it all
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| Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 1:11 am Post subject: |
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| Im no economist, I admit that. But didn't a guy called Bill do something called "balancing the budget", and had not a guy called George now created the worst defecit in the history of the states? Im just saying, maybe Democrat style economics is not such bogus hoodoo after all... |
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cbclark4
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan
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| Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 7:55 am Post subject: |
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Never said it would ruin the economy. Justed stated that simple math shows what happens to prices when cost is raised.
My math is based on level supply demand there's an econimic term for that something like everything else stays the same or some such.
Bread will always be marked down when day old, How much of a markdown will depend on the excess supply. Waste and shrinkage are built into the margin.
Demand effects supply, supply effects demand. Yes prices are adjusted accordingly the margin is maintained there wil be profit. This is usually reserved for the big ticket.
Demand creates supply.
Supply creates demand.
When the money supply increases so does price.
When more money is available for housing (interest rate low) housing prices rise, when less money is avaialble (high interest) etc.
Excess supply will always have a negative effect on price and profit.
Margin can be allowed to suffer but that would be a short term problem.
Correction would have to be made if the business were to continue.
If the Price based on Margin and Cost cannot be maintained then the volume (supply) will be less, thus cost would need to be cut thus a layoff.
Like I said earlier raising the min wage is good (and maybe should be adjusted for inflation (1970 was $2.75)) so I think $24/hr should be the min. wage, that should have no effect on the economy. Now in order to accomplish that there would need to be a definition of an obscene wage to counter the effect at the top of the pay scale. Maybe we should bring back price and wage controls those worked so well in the 70's.
The min wage being bandied about is liberal lip service it will have no real effect on the working poor and is a temporary fix, it needs weight to be efective. I think it should effect the economy, I don't think we should implement a min wage that does not effect the economy.
cbc |
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Satori
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Above it all
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| Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 8:25 am Post subject: |
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The min wage being bandied about is liberal lip service it will have no real effect on the working poor and is a temporary fix, it needs weight to be efective. I think it should effect the economy, I don't think we should implement a min wage that does not effect the economy.
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Of course it will positively affect poor people. You seem to care more about the economy it's self than the actual people in it... |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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| cbclark4 wrote: |
My math is based on level supply demand there's an econimic term for that something like everything else stays the same or some such. |
I'm going to try to listen to my better judgement, which says don't get involved in an economic discussion with someone who doesn't even know the term ceteris paribus. |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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| cbclark4 wrote: |
Never said it would ruin the economy. Justed stated that simple math shows what happens to prices when cost is raised.
My math is based on level supply demand |
Which is exactly what is wrong with your assumption. Not only has history shown your opinion to be BS, but when you raise people's wages by nearly 50 percent, that's a very big stimulus. Demand will not stay flat with tens of millions of people getting large raises and spending more. We've already been over this. I don't understand why you are repeating the same incorrect assumptions. They are not even logical. We are talking about people who are already living subsistence lives. They *will* spend most, if not all, of the gains. that's something on the order of 56 BILLION dollars in extra spending into the economy, with most of that in service and basic services/goods. Very direct stimulus. |
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cbclark4
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan
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| Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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| huffdaddy wrote: |
| cbclark4 wrote: |
My math is based on level supply demand there's an econimic term for that something like everything else stays the same or some such. |
I'm going to try to listen to my better judgement, which says don't get involved in an economic discussion with someone who doesn't even know the term ceteris paribus. |
My latin is not so good. It took me three tries to pass Macro.
I still like math.
When I have a widget that takes an hour to build. It Costs $5 in material and $5 in labor the total cost is $10.
Now I sell this widget for $10 because I don't need no stinkin' profit. Profit is for Imperialists.
When the Minimum wage is raised to $10 then my widget costs $15.
I have to raise the price to $15.
What else can I do?
I refuse to layoff my labor.
cbc |
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superacidjax
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Yo!Chingo wrote: |
| I agree that the minimum wage in the US is a joke but most of those jobs that pay minimum wage are for highschoolers or college kids. These jobs aren't meant for people to support a family on or even themselves. I believe that raising the minimum wage is a mistake because it only causes a ripple effect. The prices of goods and services will likely go up, so the extra $$$ dissappears. |
Excellent point. Obviously you've studied economics. A great book addressing this subject is call Economics in One Lesson. Anyone crying about minimum wages should read it. |
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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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| Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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cbclark4 wrote:
| Quote: |
My latin is not so good. It took me three tries to pass Macro.
I still like math.
When I have a widget that takes an hour to build. It Costs $5 in material and $5 in labor the total cost is $10.
Now I sell this widget for $10 because I don't need no stinkin' profit. Profit is for Imperialists.
When the Minimum wage is raised to $10 then my widget costs $15.
I have to raise the price to $15.
What else can I do?
I refuse to layoff my labor. |
Yes that's a correct analysis, except for one thing: outsourcing and offshoring.
Walmart doesn't pay 5$ for labour, it pays 10 cents, but it still acts like it pays 5$ so that organized | |
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