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fiveeagles

Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:27 pm Post subject:

Evidence that God heals

Quote:

For decades, Kathryn Kuhlman ministered to thousands of people the healing power of God. Casdorph is a medical doctor and scientific researcher who traveled with Kuhlman and documented the medical facts of healing as well as the spiritual truths of healing.
Each documented miracle will give you the exciting facts of how God healed and also inspire you with�

Healing scriptures to read and pray.
Powerful prayers of faith for your healing.
Encouragement and hope in the God who Heals.

Last edited by fiveeagles on Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:28 pm; edited 1 time in total

flotsam

Joined: 28 Mar 2006

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:27 pm Post subject:

Every now and then I creep over here and lose all faith in humanity.

fiveeagles

Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:29 pm Post subject:

flotsam wrote:

Every now and then I creep over here and lose all faith in humanity.

Flotsam, come to the dark side! Muhahahahaha

flotsam

Joined: 28 Mar 2006

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:33 pm Post subject:

You won't convert me. Never.

BTW:

Quote:

Controversy and criticism

Kuhlman's critics assert that she purposely deceived her audience because there is no scientific case that has proved faith healing as fact.[1] Furthermore, skeptics assert faith healing is nothing more than stage magic with misdirection and showmanship.

gang ah jee

Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Location: city of paper

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:35 pm Post subject:

fiveeagles wrote:

Evidence that God heals

Quote:

When you said that God has grown amputees' limbs back, on what evidence were you basing that claim?

For reference:

fiveeagles wrote:

ED209 wrote:

Amputees?

Actually, they have been healed, but because the experiment can't be repeated with continued success than the scientific arena disses it.

Last edited by gang ah jee on Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:40 pm; edited 1 time in total

fiveeagles

Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:36 pm Post subject:

flotsam wrote:

You won't convert me. Never.

BTW:

Quote:

Exactly. I am trying to deceive you because I want your money. PM when you get this message, ok buddy?

flotsam

Joined: 28 Mar 2006

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:37 pm Post subject:

fiveeagles wrote:

flotsam wrote:

You won't convert me. Never.

BTW:

Quote:

Exactly. I am trying to deceive you because I want your money. PM when you get this message, ok buddy?

You joke, but you would still accept the donation. Answer gaj. I'm out.

fiveeagles

Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:52 pm Post subject:

gang ah jee wrote:

fiveeagles wrote:

Evidence that God heals

Quote:

When you said that God has grown amputees' limbs back, on what evidence were you basing that claim?

For reference:

fiveeagles wrote:

ED209 wrote:

Amputees?

Actually, they have been healed, but because the experiment can't be repeated with continued success than the scientific arena disses it.

There are a few things that I have put my trust in.

1. The word of God. In it, Jesus healed the lepers.
2. The testimony of others. People have reported that they have healed people with cut off arms, legs and boobs. Get this, at one ministry. A woman who had breast cancer had both breasts cut off. The minister prays for the lady and she is instantly healed. Not only is she healed, but she lifts up her shirt for everyone to see. All of the ministry team and all of the people who knew her before.
3. Read books like I have linked that give scientific evidence of the condition before and the condition after.

Just the other weekend, I was in S.Korea ministering with my pastor. Up comes a man from the time before. He was healed of mouth cancer and had lost all of his hair because of it. The last time, he asked for prayer for all of his hair. This time around, all of his hair was back. Testifies in front of the church to the new shag.

Time and time again, I see the evidence of God's healing power. Why would people lie? What would they have to gain? I guess some do, because they want to become rich. However, this isn't always the case. Some do it, because of compassion.

gang ah jee

Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Location: city of paper

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:03 pm Post subject:

Sounds to me like you just believe what you want to believe on based on even a whiff of evidence. Can you find any refereed sources that provide evidence of your claim that God grows limbs back? Surely, since doctors keep pretty detailed records of who happens to be missing arms and whatnot, if people are growing them back it will leave a trail of records? No? Hasn't anything been published in the medical literature? Or do you guys all save it for $5 paperbacks?

ED209

Joined: 17 Oct 2006

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:27 pm Post subject:

fiveeagles wrote:

Time and time again, I see the evidence of God's healing power. Why would people lie? What would they have to gain? I guess some do, because they want to become rich. However, this isn't always the case. Some do it, because of compassion.

Well you answered your own question there. I would add some people do it for the attention. Others do it because they want to believe too. Remember these people are just as happy deceiving themselves as they are deceiving others, it adds to their cause. A pastor may also believe he/she has special powers but needs to add a little fudgery since too many shows make them 'weak'.

Why do they do this? Why do they lie?

Why does a mother think their child is a genius?
Why does a madman think he's God?
Why do I think I'm God's gift to women?

It's called self delusion, life is boring, it's nice to feel special, that you have a purpose.

ED209

Joined: 17 Oct 2006

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:43 pm Post subject:

fiveeagles wrote:

1. The word of God. In it, Jesus healed the lepers.
2. The testimony of others. People have reported that they have healed people with cut off arms, legs and boobs. Get this, at one ministry. A woman who had breast cancer had both *beep* cut off. The minister prays for the lady and she is instantly healed. Not only is she healed, but she lifts up her shirt for everyone to see. All of the ministry team and all of the people who knew her before.

Yikes

Quote:

3. Read books like I have linked that give scientific evidence of the condition before and the condition after.

I could link books that prove the loch ness monster exists, Buddha lives among us, and Thor supports gay marriage(don't mean it's true)

The only way you could convince me is to show the repeatability of these events which never happens since they are miracles and place themselves outside scientific testability.

Quote:

Just the other weekend, I was in S.Korea ministering with my pastor. Up comes a man from the time before. He was healed of mouth cancer and had lost all of his hair because of it. The last time, he asked for prayer for all of his hair. This time around, all of his hair was back. Testifies in front of the church to the new shag.

First flashing boobs then a shag, what are you guys up to?

How did he loose his hair chemotherapy?

Most hair grows back once treatment stops.

Moldy Rutabaga

Joined: 01 Jul 2003
Location: Ansan, Korea

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:59 pm Post subject:

Quote:

Not only is she healed, but she lifts up her shirt for everyone to see. All of the ministry team and all of the people who knew her before.

Hey, now that's my kind of revival meeting! Pictures, Fiveeagles, pictures.. Cool

I do not doubt that there are genuine occasional instances of God's grace healing the infirm. But I do think it is dangerous to flaunt these examples as proof. First, it tends to make heroes out of the men doing such things and turns what should be a service giving thanks and praise into a circus act-- do it again, let's see more! Second, using these situations where someone is healed to prove God I think cheapens faith even as it does nothing to convince the skeptic; these things will never happen under the controlled and verifiable circumstances necessary for good science.

I think this is what Christ was talking about when He talked about 'people asking for a proof but they will get none'; wanting to heal people in order to give proof rather than concern for the sick is like ringing God's doorbell and then running away, worrying more about people seeing the proof than anyone actually getting better.

Ken:>

Last edited by Moldy Rutabaga on Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:51 pm; edited 1 time in total

ED209

Joined: 17 Oct 2006

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:28 pm Post subject:

We should also consider why faith healing (if true) should be considered an act of a Christian God. Many non Christian faiths carry such claims of healing. Why would God heal through the wrong people? Proving someone one can heal would not be evidence of God or Jesus. If these people do have magic powers are they not just attaching them to their beliefs? How do we make the connection?

huffdaddy

Joined: 25 Nov 2005

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:44 pm Post subject:

fiveeagles wrote:

You only had a handful of prophets who foretold with great accuracy. The church is going to enter a stage where their prophecies will be greater than that of the past. Too much corruption and evil permeate the modern church and dims it's ability to perform powerful works for the Lord.

Okay, sure. Sounds like a cop out to me. A true prophet shouldn't depend on the church, but rather on G-d. Was corruption and evil less pervasive when Jesus came to this Earth?

Quote:

That's as far as he got. Logically, omniscience is predetermination. And predetermination is the absence of free will. Please reconcile.

I wrote this article about 2 years ago.
When God crosses His arms

So is G-d all knowing, past, present, and future, or not? You raise the possibility that he is not when you say, "Maybe the definition of all knowing is wrong." Changing the definition of omniscient is the only way to reconcile it with free will. Something you seem to do in your essay.

Quote:

Numerous prophecies ragarding the Messiah were unfulfilled by J---s. You claim that they will be fullfilled in the second coming. But where is this second coming prophecised to begin with?

We were talking about the lineage of Jesus through Mary and now it is about the second coming? Ok. Sorry bout that.

You clipped too much, so I wasn't sure what you were refering to.

Wrt lineage of Jesus: All the Jewish sources that I've seen say that Jewish lineage is through male heirs. Which is one reason why they don't accept Jesus as the Messiah. I provided several links supporting that.

Related is the failure of Jesus to fulfill a number of other prophecies which were given for the Messiah to fulfill. Which are also points of contention for Jews and raised in the links provided.

Quote:

What do you mean where is it?

Where in the OT does it say that there will be a first coming and a second coming?

EFLtrainer

Joined: 04 May 2005

Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 1:14 am Post subject:

fiveeagles wrote:

Hair loss due to chemo is not permanent. Rolling Eyes

My wife died of cancer; don't even think about it...

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