| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Satori
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Above it all
|
 Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 9:46 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
I was in a tunnel, and I walked all the way through (it)
It was my wife he was making love with.
It was my wife with whom he was making love.
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
pastis
Joined: 20 Jun 2006
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 10:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Satori wrote: |
| mateomiguel wrote: |
| Quote: |
| After getting stuck in traffic this evening, canceling dinner plans would have been completely understandable |
There's no subject in this sentence. Who canceled dinner plans? Who got stuck in traffic? 
Its a dangling modifier.
| Quote: |
| Being nervous sometimes, I can come off a bit awkward |
Its misuse of the word being. You should use because in place of that. "Because I am nervous sometimes, I can come off a bit awkward." or "I can come off a bit awkward because I am nervous sometimes."
Am I good or what? |
I get the first one, no subject. The second one I can't really see why "being" can't be used there. |
Yeah, I don't see any problem with the second example either, as "I" is clearly the subject being modified, so there is no ambiguity. Dangling modifiers are only an issue when the intended subject is omitted. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jajdude
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 1:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
| superacidjax wrote: |
| I defy anyone to end a sentence with a preposition. Dangling modifiers are one thing.. but a sentence ending with a preposition is grounds for divorce! |
From now on, ending a sentence with a preposition is something up with which I will not put.
Sir Winston Churchill
http://www.quotationspage.com/quotes/Sir_Winston_Churchill/ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Satori
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Above it all
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 1:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Yes that was Winston, great man that he is... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dogshed
Joined: 28 Apr 2006
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 2:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Satori wrote: |
| Quote: |
| After getting stuck in traffic this evening, canceling dinner plans would have been completely understandable |
|
After getting stuck in traffic this evening, canceling dinner plans would have been completely understandable.
After receiving mail, reading text is expected.
After blending ice cream and milk, drinking milkshake is required.
After war, sadness is expected.
All of these sentences are correct. After a general concept or experience another concept or experience is a noun in a sentence. -Jeff |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Satori
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Above it all
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 2:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
| dogshed wrote: |
All of these sentences are correct. After a general concept or experience another concept or experience is a noun in a sentence. -Jeff |
You made that rule up, admit it! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Pyongshin Sangja
Joined: 20 Apr 2003
Location: I love baby!
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 4:03 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
After getting stuck in traffic this evening, canceling dinner plans would have been completely understandable.
After receiving mail, reading text is expected.
After blending ice cream and milk, drinking milkshake is required.
After war, sadness is expected. |
What kind of translation software did you use to write that, Seven of Nine?
After data-processing, self-destructing is expected.
Suuuure. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dogshed
Joined: 28 Apr 2006
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 4:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Satori wrote: |
| dogshed wrote: |
All of these sentences are correct. After a general concept or experience another concept or experience is a noun in a sentence. -Jeff |
You made that rule up, admit it! |
Of course I did. That's how linguistics works. You listen to what people say and then you try to generalize a rule. -Jeff |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JeJuJitsu
Joined: 11 Sep 2005
Location: McDonald's
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 5:16 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Pyongshin Sangja wrote: |
| Quote: |
After getting stuck in traffic this evening, canceling dinner plans would have been completely understandable.
After receiving mail, reading text is expected.
After blending ice cream and milk, drinking milkshake is required.
After war, sadness is expected. |
What kind of translation software did you use to write that, Seven of Nine?
After data-processing, self-destructing is expected.
Suuuure. |
I think it's from Yodafish translations. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Satori
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Above it all
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 5:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
| dogshed wrote: |
| Satori wrote: |
| dogshed wrote: |
All of these sentences are correct. After a general concept or experience another concept or experience is a noun in a sentence. -Jeff |
You made that rule up, admit it! |
Of course I did. That's how linguistics works. You listen to what people say and then you try to generalize a rule. -Jeff |
Is that really how it works? So if you listen to a sentence that is known to be gramatically incorrect, you then set about trying to configure a rule that makes it correct? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dogshed
Joined: 28 Apr 2006
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 6:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Satori wrote: |
| dogshed wrote: |
| Satori wrote: |
| dogshed wrote: |
All of these sentences are correct. After a general concept or experience another concept or experience is a noun in a sentence. -Jeff |
You made that rule up, admit it! |
Of course I did. That's how linguistics works. You listen to what people say and then you try to generalize a rule. -Jeff |
Is that really how it works? So if you listen to a sentence that is known to be gramatically incorrect, you then set about trying to configure a rule that makes it correct? |
Not exactly. If you have a pattern common among a group of people you can say that group of people tends to say, "blah blah blah" when they mean blech blech blech in situation Z. That's the rule for that group.
Now if someone writes a book like Strunk and White or the APA style guide then you can say it violates the rules of standard English as defined in the APA style guide.
The vernacular used in "The Color Purple" is definitely not correct standard English but many literary types believe it is correct.
Those who write write and those who can't write edit.
-Jeff |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Novernae
Joined: 02 Mar 2005
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 7:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Lizara wrote: |
| "I can come off a bit awkward"... shouldn't it either be, "I can come off as being a bit awkward" or "I can come off a bit awkwardly?" (Although the second sentence sounds awkward itself.) |
The second one is awkward because you are changing awkward (the adjective describing the subject) into an adverb describing how the action of coming off is occurring.
Kind of like "you look good" vs "you look well." In the first person 'you' are pleasant to look at. In the second, 'you' are very talented at 'looking.' That is of course without taking into account the possibility that 'well' actually represents a reduced 'doing well' resulting in a severely reduced 'you look like you are doing well.'
I'm feeling good. I'm feeling well. (I'm have a positive physical feeling vs I am very talented at feeling.)
I'm good. I'm well. (I'm have a positive physical feeling or am well behaved vs I am talented at being)
But this is a whole other debate that we really don't want to get into do we... But people who say 'I'm well' suck!  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
pastis
Joined: 20 Jun 2006
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 8:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
| dogshed wrote: |
| Satori wrote: |
| dogshed wrote: |
| Satori wrote: |
| dogshed wrote: |
All of these sentences are correct. After a general concept or experience another concept or experience is a noun in a sentence. -Jeff |
You made that rule up, admit it! |
Of course I did. That's how linguistics works. You listen to what people say and then you try to generalize a rule. -Jeff |
Is that really how it works? So if you listen to a sentence that is known to be gramatically incorrect, you then set about trying to configure a rule that makes it correct? |
Not exactly. If you have a pattern common among a group of people you can say that group of people tends to say, "blah blah blah" when they mean blech blech blech in situation Z. That's the rule for that group.
Now if someone writes a book like Strunk and White or the APA style guide then you can say it violates the rules of standard English as defined in the APA style guide.
The vernacular used in "The Color Purple" is definitely not correct standard English but many literary types believe it is correct.
Those who write write and those who can't write edit.
-Jeff |
I think you're confusing prescribed grammar with just plain incorrect. The reason dangling modifiers are considered incorrect is that they can lead to genuine ambiguities, even for native speakers, and I'm pretty sure this is true regardless of dialect (i.e. your made up rule, while admirable, is still just made up ). Moreover I doubt there's a single dialect of English that can't simply substitute dangling modifiers for a clearer, less ambiguously expressed form. At any rate, your example sentences are certainly not correct in "standard" English, so it wouldn't be recommended to teach them as such to students. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
pastis
Joined: 20 Jun 2006
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 8:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Novernae wrote: |
| Lizara wrote: |
| "I can come off a bit awkward"... shouldn't it either be, "I can come off as being a bit awkward" or "I can come off a bit awkwardly?" (Although the second sentence sounds awkward itself.) |
The second one is awkward because you are changing awkward (the adjective describing the subject) into an adverb describing how the action of coming off is occurring.
Kind of like "you look good" vs "you look well." In the first person 'you' are pleasant to look at. In the second, 'you' are very talented at 'looking.' That is of course without taking into account the possibility that 'well' actually represents a reduced 'doing well' resulting in a severely reduced 'you look like you are doing well.'
I'm feeling good. I'm feeling well. (I'm have a positive physical feeling vs I am very talented at feeling.)
I'm good. I'm well. (I'm have a positive physical feeling or am well behaved vs I am talented at being)
But this is a whole other debate that we really don't want to get into do we... But people who say 'I'm well' suck! |
Hmm, interesting point. I don't think it was intended as an adverb. Nor do I think the original is incorrect because the verb "to be" is imbedded in the meaning of the sentence as a link between "I" and "awkward" (i.e. "I can come off [as being] a bit awkward"), but omitting it in this context is considered pretty standard I think. Furthermore, if you changed "awkward" into the adverb "awkwardly", it would then have to modify the verb "come (off)" (acting as a linking verb in it's own right), which would confuse the intended meaning somewhat (i.e. "I" being "awkward", as opposed to "coming off awkwardly"). There's only a slight semantic difference, but I think the original is just fine as it is. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
shapeshifter
Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Location: Paris
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 11:57 am Post subject: Novernae, I might be wrong but... |
|
|
what you've written here seems a little silly. You wrote:
Kind of like "you look good" vs "you look well." In the first person 'you' are pleasant to look at. In the second, 'you' are very talented at 'looking.' That is of course without taking into account the possibility that 'well' actually represents a reduced 'doing well' resulting in a severely reduced 'you look like you are doing well.'
I'm feeling good. I'm feeling well. (I'm have a positive physical feeling vs I am very talented at feeling.)
I'm good. I'm well. (I'm have a positive physical feeling or am well behaved vs I am talented at being)
Now, all of that is fair enough if we're talking 'well' the adverb. But what about 'well' the adjective? Let's try, for example, "only a few weeks after the injury, he seems to be entirely well again."?
Or far more simply, "I'm not feeling very well."
Do you really think that people who say "I'm not feeling very well" suck?
Seems a little over the top to me.
Cheers
Kind of like "you look good" vs "you look well." In the first person 'you' are pleasant to look at. In the second, 'you' are very talented at 'looking.' That is of course without taking into account the possibility that 'well' actually represents a reduced 'doing well' resulting in a severely reduced 'you look like you are doing well.'
I'm feeling good. I'm feeling well. (I'm have a positive physical feeling vs I am very talented at feeling.)
I'm good. I'm well. (I'm have a positive physical feeling or am well behaved vs I am talented at being)
But this is a whole other debate that we really don't want to get into do we... But people who say 'I'm well' suck! [/quote] |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
