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Quick culture snippet - good bad or in between?
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Vince



Joined: 05 May 2003

PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2003 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Coffee, it wasn't wrong to offer them the use of your monitor. Regardless of how ethnic these people are, they're in your country and are obligated to know your customs. The only thing I might advise is that, in the interest of meeting them halfway, offer only once. If they decline, let it go. I understand that you offered a second time because you thought there was a misunderstanding, but it's sometimes better to walk away rather than risk aggravating the misunderstanding. It sounds petty by Western standards, but asians often do it this way for a reason.

As for the ex-girlfriend, it sounds like she did the typical asian thing of acquiescing to the group. Group pressure is immense in Asia, and "screw what they think" doesn't have a place in their mentality. These are things you need to consider when deciding how deeply to get involved.
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Trinny



Joined: 01 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2003 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reminds me of the story I heard from a Korean friend of mine married to a Canadian guy.

For the record: She had lived with her husband for a year or two before they got married.

A couple of years into their marriage, my friend took in one Korean female student as a boarder. She is the girlfriend of the pastor of the Korean church my friend is going to (Protestant).

The pastor's girlfriend didn't come back home for many nights to report to my friend and sometimes she went on a trip with her boy friends for days. My friend got really furious about the whole business, because 1) the pastor of her church was having premarital relationship with this girl, 2) this girl was corrupting the pastor through the premarital relationship.

She had a hard time sticking with the promise she made to the pastor that she would keep everything secret; she told this to me and to her friend who also goes to the same church. Her church friend equally got mad at the whole affair and eventually everyone in the church got to know this and kicked this pastor out of the church.

My friend still didn't understand how this well-educated girl (the pastor's girl friend was doing her MA in Korea) was doing such a dirty thing. I came this much close to pointing it out to her that she moved in with her husband before their marriage.

Disclaimer: Other than that, my friend is a really nice girl.
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Coffeecup



Joined: 30 Jun 2003

PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2003 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the replies, especially those that explained a little extra.

Will try to make some responses and then make own comments after that.

Trinny, nice story, good read, although I got a little mixed up on who exactly was who but now it's clear.
Quote:
The pastor's girlfriend didn't come back home for many nights to report to my friend and sometimes she went on a trip with her boy friends for days.


Woo, you mean she had other lover(s), or just several other male friends? Anyways not my business. But yah, rather in line with the point I got from your story, this family (long time friends of my increasingly becoming ex-gf, if I may say) very well could have their own little dealings to stick to, but they wanted (well the wife, not the husband) to get involved in ours and only further make our lives not only more difficult and more expensive, but less close. In the Western hemisphere, all in all a very bad and destructive choice for them to get so involved. But yah there is that "criticize others when you aren't so hot yourself" foundation with it. And yah, other than those "other than that's" they really are nice, hehe.

Peppermint,

Quote:
Look on the bright side, at least the breakup is less messy since you aren't living together, no fighting over the stuff like pets.

Well, we don't have pets and we never did live with one another, but there is some truth to that: there might have been some good in never having moved in with each other.

Vince, well it may be a bit of a disappointment but I didn't get the chance to check the thread this morning before going and meeting that family at their church. And sure enough, I went there totally prepared to hand them the monitor. Oddly, the whole time they didn't mention one thing about it, and I actually had to suggest "hey how about you give me a ride home so I can give you the monitor?" Although I should point out that it turns out they have no problem with using a used monitor, when I gave it to them, there was hardly a mumbled "thank you" and that was that. And yes,

Quote:
they're in your country and are obligated to know your customs.


Undoubtedly the biggest source of frustration here in N.Cal and the biggest let-down I've seen while back in the states is that some parts of America have become an appeasement nation in which Americans really are a colorless, see-through culture and all others impose their own behaviors. This is especially true of this state -- I have found it not only perhaps harder living here than overseas (that's a tossup) but definately a major irritation in seeing both kind and evil foreigners alike just run all over the place with attitude and righteousness.

Quote:
These are things you need to consider when deciding how deeply to get involved.


Yah. It is a hardship in itself in spending so much time, dating someone for 3+ years and occasionally making acquaintances and "friends" through them to have gotten to the point that you think you have a strong support network, when in reality the whole time may have been the wrong track and the wrong people. Was going to say though, that it's probably good I am learning these lessons (although very slowly) over $100 monitors rather than later during frustrating one year contracts.

In recent times, all my mind is thinking is getting away from here altogether and Korea is the first on the list. I've already had two "breakups" with her in the recent past. Then within a couple of weeks either she calls or we're back together. I'm thinking this time around it won't be that way anymore. I'm just confused about how to really break it off with a Korean person (i.e. cultural procedures) in a way which would prevent any revengeful, extremely righteous behaviors. You know, as in "we're both responsible adults and you don't need to call every one of your friends and try to brew up a storm in making it seem like I am evil."
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The Man known as The Man



Joined: 29 Mar 2003
Location: 3 cheers for Ted Haggard oh yeah!

PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2003 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Corporal wrote:
Gord wrote:
You still look at yourself as being perfect and can do no wrong. You continue to demand that others follow your values and complain when other people cast their values on you.


Gord,
Don't project your problems onto the OP. He was not demanding that anyone follow his values, but rather puzzled that they seemed to be saying one thing to his face and singing a different tune when push came to shove. A valid thing to post about when struggling to unify East and West. Please save your enlightened viewpoint for someone who wants it; the OP made it clear he wasn't looking for your type of unhelpful response, and yet you persisted in giving it.


Good job, Gord. Keep up the good work.
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Corporal



Joined: 25 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2003 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or is it the Man known as Gord?
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Gwangjuboy



Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England

PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2003 3:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gord, according to your own trumped-up morals the Korean family should accomodate coffee cup's culture considering this took place in the States. Are you suggesting that Koreans living in the US can impose their own cultural norms upon Americans, and be absolved of the responsibilty of abiding by local customs? Borrowing is considered helpful in the West is it not? Sex before marriage is also considered normal in the West is it not? If you seriously believe that Coffee Cup should adhere to Korean norms in his own country I think you are misguided. By the same token, if I posted a new topic complaining about having to take my shoes off indoors, sitting when eating, and bowing, I am sure you would be amoungst the posters that call me a failure back home, inflexible, and bigoted.
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bucheon bum



Joined: 16 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2003 5:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Coffeecup wrote:

Undoubtedly the biggest source of frustration here in N.Cal and the biggest let-down I've seen while back in the states is that some parts of America have become an appeasement nation in which Americans really are a colorless, see-through culture and all others impose their own behaviors. This is especially true of this state -- I have found it not only perhaps harder living here than overseas (that's a tossup) but definately a major irritation in seeing both kind and evil foreigners alike just run all over the place with attitude and righteousness.


Uh say what? What are you refering to? What problems have you encountered in N. CA? Too liberal for you or something?

I am just asking because it's my home area and all. I'm not quite clear on what you mean. Please elaborate. What exactly is wrong with "all others impos[ing[ their own behavior"? Imposing sounds rather harsh to me. It sounds like they are forcing it upon others, when I don't think that is the case.

Colorless? Northern CA? I find that puzzling as well.

Sorry, I know this is divirging from the main topic completely but you raised an eyebrow Coffee Cup.
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