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flotsam
Joined: 28 Mar 2006
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 Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Cue Twilight Zone theme. |
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pastis
Joined: 20 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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Yours is in bold, mine is under.
| Julius wrote: |
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| Some random quotable quotes from the book I mentioned: |
well there is so much slanted opinion and misguided lunacy here it would take years to properly tackle.
Then go on, tackle it. I'd love to see you try.
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| --"Christianity has sided with all that is weak and base, with all failures; it has made an ideal of whatever contradicts the instinct of the strong life to preserve itself". |
this is one persons opinion that is of course against all evidence. its like saying " trees are harmful to air because I said so". Weak and base? How is swimming against the tide of human opinion weak? How is helping the poor and less fortunate base???
Christianity thrives on baseness, and could not survive without sickness, which it promotes. It's like promoting a cancer, keeping it healthy and dependent, and calling it charity.
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| --"God on the cross - are the horrible secret thoughts behind this symbol not understood yet? All that suffers, all that is nailed to the cross, is divine. All of us are nailed to the cross, consequently we are divine. We alone are divine. Christianity was a victory, a nobler outlook perished of it - Christianity has been the greatest misfortune of mankind so far." |
Well well..how ridiculous... Only one was nailed to the cross, only one was divine. I doubt the many disadvantaged people who have recieved aid, medicine or education from christian men and charities would regard the mercy and charity inherent in christianity as "a great misfortune."
Your entire life philosophy is a metaphor for being crucified and loving it. It's sick and despicable.
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| --"As long as the priest is considered a higher type of man - this professional negator, slanderer, and poisoner of life - there is no answer to the question: what is truth?" |
Priest? You're talking of catholicism now. A deviation from the truth. A misguided sect that disobeys what is commanded by God. A decoy religion, that claims to be christianity but gives it a bad name wherever it goes.That twists and perverts biblical scripture at every turn. Satans counterfeit religion. One of many.
Priest, pastor, minister, same sh*t different piles. At least Catholicism had some semblance of ritualised aestheticism to it. Protestantism is just a despicable anti-humanist perversion, as a reaction to the already despicable and perverted Roman Catholic Church.
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| --"Psychologically considered, 'sins' become indispensible in any society organized by priests: they are the real handles of power. The priest lives on sins, it is essential for him that people 'sin'. Supreme principle: 'God forgives those who repent'- in plain language: those who submit to the priest." |
Once again you're talking about catholicism. Actually, there is no need for priests and you can actually talk with God directly, through prayer, without a human intermediary. Catholicism has usurped the place of God wherever possible. The real guidance of God comes through his spirit and his words. Guys dressed up in fancy cloaks claiming to be God, as the pope does...is actually blasphemous.
It's equally as stupid. Your version, the Catholic version, any version of Christianity all stems from the same tainted source. The history of Christianity is a terminally polluted river. No amount of dilution can ever clean such filth if it's not cut off at the source: the source being your life philosophy as a crucifixion.
Well I can't be bothered with the rest of your hate-filled, misguided, twisted, opinionated quotes.
You bothered because you are hate-filled, misguided, and twisted yourself. I bet you'd like to punish me, but since you can't you'll just have to resent me like the chandala you believe yourself to be, and keep faith that I'll end up in hell (which will never happen). Your life philosophy as crucifixion: brimming with resentment while feigning clemency. |
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gang ah jee
Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Location: city of paper
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| flotsam wrote: |
| Cue Twilight Zone theme. |
Exactly.
Also, this was posted in the evolution megathread, but I thought I may as well repost it here.
Ricky Gervais on Genesis
"C'mon, he's amazing! What are you - free your minds, listen, right. So he did the light, invented it. Which means that he created the heaven and the earth IN THE DARK!" |
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pastis
Joined: 20 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Julius wrote: |
What you want is a world where humanity is absolved from responsibility for its choices. It must be a comforting illusion to believe everything that is wrong in the world is the fault of someone else. but we all share the same flawed, fallen, human nature.
"We have found the enemy: it is us".
Deadened, polluted and destroyed coral reef.
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The most flawed, fallen people on earth are Christians (or their Jewish/Islamic equivalents). I can virtually guarantee that your reef there was destroyed by Christians (I'm guessing of the WASP variety) who were pilfering some more of their "god-given bounty". Christianity is all about raping the earth for everything it's worth. It's is all about despising the earth and making it ugly. Christians only see beauty in their dreamt-up afterlife, because the real world isn't good enough for them. Abandon that stupid religion, and things will certainly improve. |
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Grimalkin
Joined: 22 May 2005
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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Julius
The idea that natural disasters are the result of man's sin is nonsensical. Natural disasters have been around since the time of the 'Big Bang' and are a direct result of it. Earth is basically a rock whizzing through space after an explosion. Anything living on it is bound to suffer natural disasters because of it's motion.
Christians believe that suffering and death came into the world as a result of man's sin. This explanation does not stand up to scrutiny. It may have satisified people in ancient times but modern man knows that suffering and death pre-dated the advent of man. Look at what happened the dinosaurs. This is one of the reasons that some christians want to accept the idea of a much younger universe than science indicates. It is the only way they can persist with their fallacious explanation of suffering and death.
As a side note I think buddhists give a much more convincing explanation of suffering (if I understand it correctly). Everything is impermanent so it is inevitable thay everything we have will someday be lost. Human suffering comes about as a result of attachment to things that we are destined to lose. |
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atlhockey
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Jeonju City
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Julius wrote: |
| What you want is a world where humanity is absolved from responsibility for its choices. It must be a comforting illusion to believe everything that is wrong in the world is the fault of someone else. |
That's the religious perspective! Humanity can get away with anything because it's all forgiven in the end! And how can you talk about comforting illusions with a straight face, honestly? There's suffering in the world because people are bad. Disease? God's will. HIV? God's will. Death? God's will. In what way is that NOT making everything somebody else's problem? The atheist and humanist perspective is that WE are responsible for all our actions and that we must as individuals and as a society take that responsibility and change things. Not accept them as our "nature."
But we also recognize things that are out of our control. Tsunamis, for instance. |
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endofthewor1d
Joined: 01 Apr 2003
Location: the end of the wor1d.
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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| atlhockey wrote: |
| Disease? God's will. HIV? God's will. Death? God's will. |
julius, i'll consider it to be an early christmas present if you say something in response to this involving gays and black people.
i'm also curious about your take on the dinosaurs. how the devil did noah ever manage to get them on the ark? or is that why they became extinct... because they couldn't fit?
if you want to give me another christmas present, please tell me that there never were any dinosaurs, and god just planted bones in the earth to test our faith. |
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Rteacher
Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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They pissed off King Kong by going after his girl friend so he wiped them all out (circa 1930 - before he came to New York...)
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Qinella
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Location: the crib
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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You are pretty arrogant. A common feature of Christians, it seems..
You say 'so many misconceptions and twisting of the truth', when the sad truth is you are entirely missing my point. Whether it's because you are intentionally disallowing yourself to understand an opposing view, or are just not very smart, I do not know.
| Julius wrote: |
Dear dear...so many misconceptions and twisting of truth to tackle all at once...
Qinella:
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| The very first people made the wrong choice, according to your beliefs. This indicates an inherent flaw in the design. |
No. Once gain..no programmed robots here. free will allows for the possibility people may choose the wrong path and thus face the consequences. It was a risk, as love is |
Again, as I said, his very first humans rebelled against him. You're saying that indicates no mistake on his part, but I think it's pretty clear that he did something wrong. Also, why were only Adam and Eve given the clean start? Why does every human since them start out as inherently evil? This is absurd, and not indicative of a god that is either clever or loving.
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| If you make a robot that can only accept you and has no power to choose, what good is it? However if you have someone who having experienced all else, then chooses you of their own will, against all other tempting paths, then you have something f real value. |
This is stupid. You keep using the robot analogy, but it is a straw man!
Nowhere did I suggest that Yahweh should have created automotons!! Try to stop making logical fallacies and just understand what the opposition is saying. Is it possible?
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Adam supposedly walked and talked with God every day. And then suddenly just gave it all up? Makes no sense at all. |
Hmm. Plenty of people have excellent jobs, careers, earning lots of cash. But suddenly they just give it up, quit, and head off to Korea to teach english. make sense? |
Really horrible analogy, once again. Are you saying that working in Korea is a bad decision, one which will be every person's downfall from here to eternity? Are you saying that having a nice job is comparable to walking and talkingn with God in a literal sense? 
Once again, you take the easy way out.
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| Furthermore, where is the justice in punishing every human ever to come after Adam and Eve? |
Because thereafter, people were born into sin. It was inescapable. |
Yes, so basically you just repeated what I said. Thanks for telling me that the reason oranges are orange is because they are oranges.
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| It may surprise you, but innocent people suffer for the faults of others. Every day. If you decide to mug some old lady, she suffers and you get a purse full of cash. One persons choice affects others.The whole of NK suffers because of KJ il.And so the domino effect of a multitude of wrng choices multiplies. people are punished for the sins of their own flesh and blood. their fathers. We are trapped in a massive web of wrongdoing from the day we are born.Tainted. One stain ruins the entire painting. 99% is not good enough for one who is perfect. Something imperfect can only spawn something imperfect. |
And you're saying that your god is either helpless to change this, or is indifferent. Sounds sadistic and apathetic to me.
Also, you are talking about human actions. The whole concept of something being evil, of sin, of downfall, is a creation of Yahweh. Supposedly, he should've had the power to not create these concepts. But he wasn't, because he is fake, and the story is just meant to explain things the best that people 4,000 years ago could understand. Purdy obvious to me. But go ahead and post a picture of a rainbow--that'll make it all better.
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| It is chock full of symbolism, much of it borrowed from neighboring cultures. |
But christianity is unique in its claims. |
Sorry, slick, but we have been talking about Genesis. Especially considering the fact that I said OT (you do know what that means, don't you?), you should've known better than to talk about Christianity. But I'll get to your erroneous claims anyway, because it is funny, although sad.
As I said, the fact is that the biblical creation myth is exactly that, a myth. (And by myth, I do not mean 'fantasy story'. I mean a story which is not literally true, but intends to teach something.) Only dummies take it literally.
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| "No man comes to God except through me" is unique. |
Now would be a good time for you to understand what that means.
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| Bhudda and Mohammed did not return from the dead. |
Buddha and Mohammed did not make claims of being God. And neither did Jesus, if you would be more astute in your undrestanding. I and my father are one does not mean I am my father. If I say I am one with nature, do you take that to mean that I'm claiming to be nature?
Additionally, there have been other traditions that worshipped a god figure that supposedly had risen from the dead. You did not know that??? Also, there are people in modern times who claim to have been resurrected. Again, you did not know that?
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| No good works or merit can suffice, except for the way outlined to reconcile us to our creator. |
More meaningless babble. I need to reconcile for being born?
Rubbish. Some people may find pleasure in self flagellation, but I do not. I accept the fact that I am a good person, I am not inherently evil, and I do not need the threat of punishment looming over my head to compel me to act decently. Those who do truly are inferior beings.
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| If my wife betrayed me, I would not want her to be punished eternally. Are you saying I am more compassionate than God? |
No, but if you had self respect you would want separation. hell is separation from God. While on this earth we can mess up multiple times and still return to forgiveness, because we are in the physical. The spiritual on the other hand... is eternal. Lets say your wife not only sleeps with all your mates, slags you off to everyone, has children by everyone else, and stabs you for good measure. Then in her dying breath she genuinely asks for your forgiveness. If you forgive her, then that would be similar to what God does for people on earth. But of course...after she dies, it would be too late for her to make amends, wouldn't it? |
Even a wife who was faithful to me would be separated from me forever upon dying.
But it seems you are of the appropriate understanding of the definition of hell as written in the bible, so that is good. That means you only have about, oh.. 700 or so more hours of studying to do. That figure is based on how little you seem to know about the rest of your favorite book. |
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Novernae
Joined: 02 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Julius wrote: |
| For a start..the glory of God is apparent in creation. |
I respond to that with your own statement:
| Julius wrote: |
| this is one persons opinion that is of course against all evidence. its like saying " trees are harmful to air because I said so". |
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="pastis"]
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| The most flawed, fallen people on earth are Christians (or their Jewish/Islamic equivalents). |
All are flawed. a matter of degrees is insignificant, because only perfection is acceptable. A tiny stain on your paper is as bad as if it were dipped in ink.
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| I can virtually guarantee that your reef there was destroyed by Christians (I'm guessing of the WASP variety) who were pilfering some more of their "god-given bounty". |
now you are trying to assign blame to a particular group and encourage judgement of them alone- when in fact everyone is guilty to some degree.
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| Christianity is all about raping the earth for everything it's worth. It's is all about despising the earth and making it ugly. Christians only see beauty in their dreamt-up afterlife, because the real world isn't good enough for them. Abandon that stupid religion, and things will certainly improve. |
protecting the earth and environment is a command of God in the bible. Right at the beginning..
Genesis 2.15:
15 Then the LORD God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to tend and keep it.
elsewhere the bible states that God will punish those who poision, overexpploit and destroy his creation.
in fact.. the empty theory of evolution which I guess you follow, has no tenet stating it is mans duty to protect nature. This is a biblical concept! The probability of a mass extinction is not seen as tragic by evolutionists, it is merely the next step in evolution. New circumstances by which new lifeforms can eventually arise and evolve. An evolutionist sheds no tears at the extinction of the dinosaurs nor at the prospect of losing the Polar bears with climate change. its simply an interesting development. in fact..the only logic justifying human stewardship of this planet is if:
There is a Creator (Genesis 1:1,),The Earth and all that lives in it are His (Psalms 24:1,); He has commissioned humankind to care for creation (Genesis 2:15).
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| destroyed by christians |
You're assuming all white anglo saxon males are automatically christians if they happen to come from a country with an old christian heritage? you're taking about nominal christians.in name only.
A christian is someone who believes in Jesus, has accepted his authority over his life, and follows his teachings through a spiritual rebirth. That is all. Of course many, many people claim to be christian without knowing what a christian actually is. or maybe just because they happened to be born in America. |
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Grimalkin wrote: |
Christians believe that suffering and death came into the world as a result of man's sin. This explanation does not stand up to scrutiny. It may have satisified people in ancient times but modern man knows that suffering and death pre-dated the advent of man. Look at what happened the dinosaurs. |
More lies. man was created first, and then the animals after. Scientific evidence upholds the bibles account- even to the point of dinosaurs living alongside man.
of course, "science" has smothered much blatantly obvious evidence that contradicts their agenda. or it misinterprets it..and so on. The overwhelming impetus of the world is to decieve and lead people away from the truth. a people alienated from god ..and in a world decieved by satan..trying every possible means to keep man separated from their creator. The biblical account is consistent and clear, your scientists revise, refute, change and twist with every new year. And no, christians don't get funding to research. |
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="atlhockey"]
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| That's the religious perspective! Humanity can get away with anything because it's all forgiven in the end! |
not so, there are consequences for sin. although..orgiveness is available to those who genuinely repent.
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| There's suffering in the world because people are bad. |
yes. And people have been misled by Satan. often in the guise of goodness- a highly effective strategy.
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| Disease? God's will. HIV? God's will. Death? God's will. |
"It is God's will that nobody should perish". Which is why he has made a way for us to eternal life. he laso made rules by which man could live peacefully with the earth. But they have been rejected, and for sin, there are consequences and a price to pay. The price has been paid on your behalf already if you will accept it.
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| The atheist and humanist perspective is that WE are responsible for all our actions and that we must as individuals and as a society take that responsibility and change things. |
not possible under our own strength.under the guidance of God's holy spirit, yes. We are ruled by our fallen nature. As you see..throughout history greed has always triumphed and man has relentlessly destroyed the earth as he went.no combined human effort now can succeed, if it lacks an obedience to the creator. Global warming and the wrongdoing will bring the earth to the brink of destruction. we're almost there. |
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atlhockey
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Jeonju City
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Julius wrote: |
| Scientific evidence upholds the bibles account- even to the point of dinosaurs living alongside man. |
It does no such thing.
| Julius wrote: |
| of course, "science" has smothered much blatantly obvious evidence that contradicts their agenda. |
Yeah, it's all a biiiiiiiig conspiracy to keep down the oppressed Christian. What, pray tell, do scientists stand to gain by this global cover-up of the fact that Flintstones was a documentary? Scientists seek the truth in their evidence. But your view of their motives is obscured by religion's propensity for misdirection and insistence that their couple thousand-year-old myths are truth. Science doesn't deal in myths. |
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mack the knife
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: standing right behind you...
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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Where's fiveeagles when you need him, with all his Stephen King, hellfire-and-damnation rhetoric-mumbo-jumbo!  |
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