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For those of you who don't believe in God
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Julius

Joined: 27 Jul 2006

Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 11:52 pm Post subject:

[quote="Qinella"]

Quote:

You are pretty arrogant. A common feature of Christians, it seems..

Why try to personalize the debate? far from arrogant, I am a flawed human being, same as yourself.

Quote:

Again, as I said, his very first humans rebelled against him. You're saying that indicates no mistake on his part, but I think it's pretty clear that he did something wrong.

1 +1 does not = 3. man had a sacred gift, free will. the ability to discern right and wrong, and choose between it. Although god gave instructions, he could not force people to choose the right path, as he had granted free will. If he had created man a being that was unable to choose for himself, then that negates the concept of free will.

Quote:

Also, why were only Adam and Eve given the clean start? Why does every human since them start out as inherently evil? This is absurd, and not indicative of a god that is either clever or loving.

What the original sin did was to cause the human race to fall into the practice of sin. We are born to imperfect parents, whose sin negatively influences us. We become accustomed to committing "minor" sins without regard to their negative impact on our lives and the lives of others.We are unavoidably tainted..from conception.

Quote:

You keep using the robot analogy, but it is a straw man!

Nowhere did I suggest that Yahweh should have created automotons!!

But that is your implication when you say that because man chose to rebel, God must have made a mistake in his his design.What you are saying is..god should have designed beings that were incapable of sin and incapable of choosing the wrong thing. How then would we have free will? You are advocating that God should have made automatons. Choose a different analogy if you prefer, the meaning is the same.

Quote:

Really horrible analogy, once again. Are you saying that working in Korea is a bad decision, one which will be every person's downfall from here to eternity? Are you saying that having a nice job is comparable to walking and talkingn with God in a literal sense?

now you are imposing an emotive misinterpretation of what i meant. granted my analogy was not a good one: my point was, man was free to explore life away from God's will if he desired. i'm not saying teaching esl is a comparable wrong decision, but just an example of someone exercising their free will and choice.

[quote]

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Furthermore, where is the justice in punishing every human ever to come after Adam and Eve?

Adressed earlier.

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And you're saying that your god is either helpless to change this, or is indifferent. Sounds sadistic and apathetic to me.

No, i'm saying God is the only one able to change the predicament of man. By his grace and mercy he provided a way.

Quote:

Also, you are talking about human actions. The whole concept of something being evil, of sin, of downfall, is a creation of Yahweh.

So then we return your idea that there is no good and evil. i assume your family being killed by a masked gunman is Ok then? its Ok if someone stabs you while you are walking in the street, and you see nothing wrong, no crime has been enacted.

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As I said, the fact is that the biblical creation myth is exactly that, a myth. Only dummies take it literally.

Then why does the scientific evidence prove the biblical account?

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Buddha and Mohammed did not make claims of being God.

indeed, so why follow them?

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And neither did Jesus, if you would be more astute in your undrestanding. I and my father are one does not mean I am my father.

Jesus is referred to as the Son of God. God become man. The tri-unity, 3 in 1. God the Father, God the son, God the Holy spirit.

Quote:

Additionally, there have been other traditions that worshipped a god figure that supposedly had risen from the dead.

-"supposedly."

Quote:

Also, there are people in modern times who claim to have been resurrected. Again, you did not know that?

-"claim."

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I need to reconcile for being born?

For being an imperfect human. How can perfection accept what is imperfect?

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Some people may find pleasure in self flagellation, but I do not.

it is not self-flagellation. Rather, a joyful rescue from the state of condemnation.

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I am not inherently evil

"the heart of man is desperately wicked. Who can know it?". Sure you may not have committed mass murder, but you are still...less than perfect. i'm sure Hitler helped an old lady across the road when he was a kid.

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I do not need the threat of punishment looming over my head to compel me to act decently.

its not about acting decently. Its moreso, a spiritual rebirth, a redemption, a saving from your fallen nature and its natural consequences. The natural consequence of sin, is death. same as..the natural consequence of someone drinking poison or jumping into a fire. if you get some wrong answers in your examination, you don't still get 100%. unless you're in korea perhaps.

Quote:

Even a wife who was faithful to me would be separated from me forever upon dying.

Unless you were God, and existed outside of the bounds of time and the physical plane? If you were the loving God, then as an act of love, would you not make a way for your faithful bride to live with you forever?

otis

Joined: 02 Jun 2006

Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:06 am Post subject:

pastis wrote:

If I ever find myself getting annoyed at the utter stupidity of god-fearing peasants (like, I dunno, the OP) or just Christianity in general, I find the best medicine is to kick back, crack a cold beer and proceed to take a nice ocular stroll down some nice passages of Nietzsche's The Antichrist. That always settles it. I doubt anyone will ever be able to so thoroughly and inexorably debunk that religion than he does in that book, bless him.

Here's a nice tag: "In reality there has only been one Christian, and he died on the cross".

After having a drink and reading The Anti-Christ, what you need to do is ***********. Then you will really succeed to reducing yourself to a monkey.

Good for you.

Mod Edit: Edited for language.

pastis

Joined: 20 Jun 2006

Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:19 am Post subject:

otis wrote:

pastis wrote:

After having a drink and reading The Anti-Christ, what you need to do is *********. Then you will really succeed to reducing yourself to a monkey.

Good for you.
Mod Edit: Edited for language.

1) Nothing wrong with ********.

2) I guarantee I get a lot more nookie than you (I saw your picture once that you posted).

3) The title of the book is The Antichrist. You should read it. It's famous.

4) [removed insult]

Good for you.

Mod Edit: Edited for language and flamming.

pastis

Joined: 20 Jun 2006

Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:24 am Post subject:

[quote="Julius"]

pastis wrote:

Quote:

The most flawed, fallen people on earth are Christians (or their Jewish/Islamic equivalents).

All are flawed. a matter of degrees is insignificant, because only perfection is acceptable. A tiny stain on your paper is as bad as if it were dipped in ink.

Quote:

I can virtually guarantee that your reef there was destroyed by Christians (I'm guessing of the WASP variety) who were pilfering some more of their "god-given bounty".

now you are trying to assign blame to a particular group and encourage judgement of them alone- when in fact everyone is guilty to some degree.

Quote:

Christianity is all about raping the earth for everything it's worth. It's is all about despising the earth and making it ugly. Christians only see beauty in their dreamt-up afterlife, because the real world isn't good enough for them. Abandon that stupid religion, and things will certainly improve.

protecting the earth and environment is a command of God in the bible. Right at the beginning..

Genesis 2.15:
15 Then the LORD God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to tend and keep it.

elsewhere the bible states that God will punish those who poision, overexpploit and destroy his creation.

in fact.. the empty theory of evolution which I guess you follow, has no tenet stating it is mans duty to protect nature. This is a biblical concept! The probability of a mass extinction is not seen as tragic by evolutionists, it is merely the next step in evolution. New circumstances by which new lifeforms can eventually arise and evolve. An evolutionist sheds no tears at the extinction of the dinosaurs nor at the prospect of losing the Polar bears with climate change. its simply an interesting development. in fact..the only logic justifying human stewardship of this planet is if:

There is a Creator (Genesis 1:1,),The Earth and all that lives in it are His (Psalms 24:1,); He has commissioned humankind to care for creation (Genesis 2:15).

Quote:

destroyed by christians

You're assuming all white anglo saxon males are automatically christians if they happen to come from a country with an old christian heritage? you're taking about nominal christians.in name only.
A christian is someone who believes in Jesus, has accepted his authority over his life, and follows his teachings through a spiritual rebirth. That is all. Of course many, many people claim to be christian without knowing what a christian actually is. or maybe just because they happened to be born in America.

I was actually prepared to respond in some detail, that is until I read the next post you made claiming that dinosaurs and humans have co-existed. Laughing

Why don't you just go lock yourself up in a menagerie and repent some more, you nutter?

gang ah jee

Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Location: city of paper

Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:26 am Post subject:

pastis wrote:

I was actually prepared to respond in some detail, that is until I read the next post you made claiming that dinosaurs and humans have co-existed. Laughing

Why don't you just go lock yourself up in a menagerie and repent some more, you nutter?

Yup, Julius is at Rteacher levels of delusion. Best just to leave him to it.

otis

Joined: 02 Jun 2006

Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:31 am Post subject:

pastis wrote:

otis wrote:

pastis wrote:

After having a drink and reading The Anti-Christ, what you need to do is ********. Then you will really succeed to reducing yourself to a monkey.

Good for you.
Mod Edit: Edited for language.

1) Nothing wrong with *********.

2) I guarantee I get a lot more nookie than you (I saw your picture once that you posted).

3) The title of the book is The Antichrist. You should read it. It's famous.

4) [Removed insult]

Good for you.
Mod Edit: Edited for language and flamming.

Trust me.

I read it.

My I.Q. is actually rated above 200. Lots of good it did me.

It's scary, though. I'm only like 35 points behind Hawking.

But I'm a moron.

It's kind of funny, though. If I'm a moron,--which I am--then I guess that makes you a single-celled organism.

Have fun **********, Bright Eyes.

Mod Edit: Edited for language.

Last edited by otis on Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:36 am; edited 2 times in total

Julius

Joined: 27 Jul 2006

Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:33 am Post subject:

[quote="pastis"]

Quote:

I was actually prepared to respond in some detail, that is until I read the next post you made claiming that dinosaurs and humans have co-existed.

Then why would 2000 year-old writings describe dinosaurs living alongside man. And there is also much evidence from other cultures, excavations and archaeological finds. It is supressed and the findings misrepresented, to keep scientists in their jobs and keep the masses blinded to truth.

Quote:

Why don't you just go lock yourself up in a menagerie and repent some more, you nutter?

peace to you:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only son, that whosoever should believe in him, shall not perish, but have everlasting life".

SPINOZA

Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Location: $eoul

Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:35 am Post subject:

Listen up, you lot! Obey your instincts and your desire! Learn to live like an animal!

otis

Joined: 02 Jun 2006

Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:37 am Post subject:

SPINOZA wrote:

Listen up, you lot!

Obey your instincts and your desire!

Learn to live like an animal!

Thanks for that.

pastis

Joined: 20 Jun 2006

Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:39 am Post subject:

otis wrote:

pastis wrote:

otis wrote:

pastis wrote:

After having a drink and reading The Anti-Christ, what you need to do is ********. Then you will really succeed to reducing yourself to a monkey.

Good for you.
Mod Edit: Edited for language.

Trust me.

I read it.

My I.Q. is actually rated above 200. Lots of good it did me.

Yes, I'm a moron.

But it's kind of funny. If I'm a moron,--which I am--then I guess that makes you a single-celled organism.

Have fun ********.Mod Edit: Edited for language.

I doubt you did read it.
I reckon your IQ to be around room temperature.
You're right about your being a moron, but that's where it ends.

... Question

...isn't ******** always fun? Actually, don't bother answering, cuz your answer means nothing.

Mod Edit: Edited for language.

otis

Joined: 02 Jun 2006

Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:40 am Post subject:

pastis wrote:

otis wrote:

pastis wrote:

otis wrote:

pastis wrote:

After having a drink and reading The Anti-Christ, what you need to do is ********. Then you will really succeed to reducing yourself to a monkey.

Good for you.
Mod Edit: Edited for language.

I doubt you did read it.
I reckon your IQ to be around room temperature.
You're right about your being a moron, but that's where it ends.

... Question

...isn't ********* always fun? Actually, don't bother answering, cuz your answer means nothing.
Mod Edit: Edited for language.

I'd figure you at high-average. I'm guessing 120. Tell us about The Anti-Chirst.

pastis

Joined: 20 Jun 2006

Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:42 am Post subject:

[quote="Julius"]

pastis wrote:

Quote:

I was actually prepared to respond in some detail, that is until I read the next post you made claiming that dinosaurs and humans have co-existed.

Oh please, do go on. Rolling Eyes

pastis

Joined: 20 Jun 2006

Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:43 am Post subject:

otis wrote:

I'd figure you at high-average. I'm guessing 120. Tell us about The Anti-Chirst.

Nice try. Go read it yourself. You might learn something.

otis

Joined: 02 Jun 2006

Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:46 am Post subject:

pastis wrote:

otis wrote:

I'd figure you at high-average. I'm guessing 120. Tell us about The Anti-Chirst.

Nice try. Go read it yourself. You might learn something.

Come on, poser. Every teenager with acne has read The Anti-Christ.

Tell us about the supermen and their roles in the world.

You read, yet you do not understand.

Come on. Give us a lecture.

pastis

Joined: 20 Jun 2006

Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 1:02 am Post subject:

otis wrote:

pastis wrote:

otis wrote:

I'd figure you at high-average. I'm guessing 120. Tell us about The Anti-Chirst.

Nice try. Go read it yourself. You might learn something.

Come on, poser. Every teenager with acne has read The Anti-Christ.

Tell us about the supermen and their roles in the world.

You read, yet you do not understand.

Come on. Give us a lecture.

Feel free to wikipedia it if you wish (since you're probably next to illiterate, and too chronically drunk to read a real book), but expect that I will butcher you on this topic when you slip up. Not that butchering you on any topic would be a thing to write home about, but just letting you know, I actually have read it, more than once.

Okay, here's a hint: the "superman" as you like to call it actually comes from a different book (same author). That and you keep mispelling the title...

I may explain more if you first admit that you're an idiot, and haven't actually read the book.

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