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freethought
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
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 Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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To try to answer this question (why people hate Jews) is essentially impossible. You can come up with a pretty easy answer for Palestinians, but beyond that you're dealing with non-factuals, supposition and blind hatred that has received a number of attempted rationalisations in scholarship.
Historians like Bernard Lewis and Arthur Goldschmidt along with many, many others, both tend to illustrate the modern day tensions as a twofold development. The first had to do with the decline of the Ottoman Empire and the second deals with the Zionist movement and the drive to establish a Jewish national homeland in the middle east from the late 19th century onward and the after effects of that drive.
That said, both also take a great amount of time explaining that prior to the 'modern times' (1800 onward) Jewish-Muslim relations were quite good. Jews were allowed to live almost completely autonomously within the Ottoman empire, with the occassional conflict arising over land and resources, rather than religion. The Shirnking and collapse of the Ottoman empire at the accelerated rate that started in the late 1700s and increased after that seems to have spurred more conflict for a variety of reasons. It blossomed as zionism grew and exploded from 1946-48 and there after.
When it comes to anti-jewish feelings in Europe, irrational thought is likely the biggest reason. Money loaning played a role, as did the resentment that seems to develop for toward all minority groups. In this case you also have a group of people who claim to have the one true faith and be the chosen people of 'god'. If I was part of another faith who worshipped the same 'god', then that might get under my skin just a wee bit. The denying of 'christ' in varying degrees also played a role in resentment.
All this aside, that video is essentially duo-form hate propaganda and that man should have been fired long ago... anybody catch his questions to the newly elected Muslim Congressman???
As for the something you wont see on CNN, it was either the OPs worship of headline news (which makes him an idiot), or he's an idiot for not realizing that HLN is CNN... either way, the title of the entry is idiocy. |
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Grimalkin
Joined: 22 May 2005
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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freethought wrote
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| To try to answer this question (why people hate Jews) is essentially impossible. |
Thinking about it in evolutionary terms there is probably quite a simple answer. It's in our nature. To survive in an enviroment with limited resources man had to be able to compete with other groups. We developed an ability to see differences in those who were not of our clan tribe etc, and to react with hostility to those who we saw as being different. Jews because of their religion refused to assimilate into other cultures. Their very visible difference sparked that atavistic hostility inherent in human nature. There are many other examples of this type of reaction worldwide where other groups have not assimilated and/or are visibly different. |
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Slep
Joined: 14 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Green Tea wrote: |
| happeningthang wrote: |
People just straight up hate Jews?? Why?? |
The jews were hated in Germany because they exploit people and would hoard money instead of cycling it back into society. They were know to be terribly cheap and refuse to offer a fair rate for anything. Jews were also often involved in seedy businesses like pimping, drugs, pornography and bootleg alcohol. By hoarding their money, they were able to corrupt public officials and create power structures. This is where zionism comes from. Zionists are the real focus of hate, not the religious jews. The Nazis hated zionists who were not interested in building Germany, but only enriching themselves and other zionists.
The Arabs hate the jews because of Israel. Plain and simple. Jerusalem is a holy place, and the zionists annexed it and subjugated the Palestinian people. |
I don't know, i'm jewish and i'd like to think i'm a pretty generous guy. I buy drinks of christian baby blood for my friends when they're broke and i'm always willing to lend a buddy a buck if he needs it (of course, i do expect a decent rate of interest, the money i get from various ZOG's can only carry me so far).
It's intersting that you bring up that Jews were disproportionately involved in the black market in Germany. This happened in Russia as well. You didn't bring up why this was the case though and it has ancient connotations which are arguably the start of state sponsored anti semitism. In Roman times, i believe Peter, but i could be wrong (the leader that first made Christianity the religion of the empire), limited what jobs Jews could have, limiting them to jobs that no self respecting christian would do such as money lending. Jews were persecuted because of state sponsored lies such as blood libel as well as overstating Jews involvment in Jesus's death. On the other hand, being jewish was a fundamental rejection of christianity, a non acceptance of the messiah. This, i believe, above all else, was a prime reason for early anti semitism.
Fastfoward to the late 1800's and not m uch has changed. Jews still can't work in most jobs so they turn to the black market in order to make a living which created an urban elite with little love for a state that persecuted them. Russian leadership needs distraction/scapegoat for starving people, blames it on the small percentage of jews who had been successful in the black market and encourages pogroms. The russians forge the protocals for the elders of zion to justify these murders.
and stupid people continue to pick up on this so called vast jewish conspiracy.
A lot of this is my own research and conclusion so take it with a grain of salt. |
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Neil
Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Location: Tokyo
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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| happeningthang wrote: |
I think this is a bit off the point, but what the **** is up with jewish people?
I mean, there's a long history of anti-semitism in Europe, Nazi Germany, now Iran and the arab world....
People just straight up hate Jews?? Why?? |
During times in history it became forbidden for the general public to become money lenders (due to some Bible interpretation stuff) and so only those of other faiths could do so. In most cases these were the Jews who became rather successful as a result. When times became hard (as the cycle of human history dictates always happens) a scapegoat was needed - someone 'not like us'. Step forward the Jews who have played that role for hundreds of years. It even happened in Britain where they were forced to leave the country (I can't remember which king but it was in the Middle Ages). Fortunately things had changed over the years so that in the 1930's when Moseley tried to foment opposition against the Jews he was roundly ridiculed by the general population.
Freeing the country from Rome helped. There is a vein of anti-semitism in the Catholic church. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| In Roman times, i believe Peter, but i could be wrong (the leader that first made Christianity the religion of the empire), limited what jobs Jews could have, limiting them to jobs that no self respecting christian would do such as money lending. |
The Emperor you're thinking of was Constantine. Peter is regarded by Catholics as the first Pope, but he lived long before Xtianity became the state creed of Rome. |
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Slep
Joined: 14 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
| Quote: |
| In Roman times, i believe Peter, but i could be wrong (the leader that first made Christianity the religion of the empire), limited what jobs Jews could have, limiting them to jobs that no self respecting christian would do such as money lending. |
The Emperor you're thinking of was Constantine. Peter is regarded by Catholics as the first Pope, but that was long before Xtianity became the state creed of Rome. |
cheers.
After typing it, i knew it was wrong but couldn't remember which emperor it was. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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This is what always gets me about anti-semitism...
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| Jews were also often involved in seedy businesses like pimping, drugs, pornography and bootleg alcohol. |
That's quite possibly true. However, there would have been no market for pimps, pornographers, and drug dealers if German Christians hadn't been lining up around the block to buy their products and services.
And what's this about bootleg alcohol? Was there prohibition during the Weimar years? Or at any time in Germany, for that matter? |
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Slep
Joined: 14 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 10:55 pm Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
This is what always gets me about anti-semitism...
| Quote: |
| Jews were also often involved in seedy businesses like pimping, drugs, pornography and bootleg alcohol. |
That's quite possibly true. However, there would have been no market for pimps, pornographers, and drug dealers if German Christians hadn't been lining up around the block to buy their products and services.
And what's this about bootleg alcohol? Was there prohibition during the Weimar years? Or at any time in Germany, for that matter? |
Great line.
They also conveniently ignore the reason that jews were money lenders as a result of anti semitism. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 4:21 am Post subject: |
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Not disagreeing with much of what's been said here, but the hatred of the Jews is disproportionate. The reason why is because hatred of the Jews is often existential.
As God's Chosen people, the Jews have a covenant with God whom ensures their survival. The covenant has lasted pretty long, and in the meantime Empires great and small have died out. Whether or not you believe in the validity of this covenant or not, the fact remains, that the Jews have managed to survive under pretty pressing circumstances when other peoples have not.
Today more peoples than ever are disappearing in the wake of globalization. As the Jews continue to prosper, you'll find continuing resentment for them while other peoples lose their traditions and faith. Because of this, anti-semitism in the Middle East will remain widespread. |
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cbclark4
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan
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| Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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It arose as a rumor in the time of Mohammed that the Jews believed that Ezra or Uzair had been begotten of God or a son of God. Ezra is the guy that brought the Jews from Bagdad back to Jerusalem thanks to the kindness of Darius.
SURAH 9:30 "The Jews call Uzair a son of Allah...."
This is apparantly an affront to the One God Belief (Theory) a tenent of Isalm.
It came to be there was but one small sect of Jews with such a belief, they were converted to Isalm.
Since the time of Ezra there has always been a large Population of Jews in Palestine.
cbc |
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ChopChaeJoe
Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:07 am Post subject: |
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Losers need to pinpoint an enemy. Since a loser generally has problems in very direction, and being a loser he can't do anything about it, he focuses his energy on hating a conveinent scapegoat.
The rasons for hating jews are usually the same stuff people hate black people about.
And it's all just ignorance, prejudice, and b.s. |
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kotakji
Joined: 23 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:50 am Post subject: |
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Well after watching that show I must say whats new? Despite all the comments he made about western media not showing "the real Iran" or whatever, I certainly didnt see anything extraordinary. A few comments:
Showing those political cartoons of Bush and Rice was just silly, you see similar such ones in western media and protests. Hell I was in London a couple months back and passed by a big anti-war protest that had far worse cartoons. The bomb-turban Allah cartoons were far more nasty then those aired on the CNN show.
The comments by Ahmadinejad were stale and honestly nothing that should be surprising to anyone whose been alive the last couple centuries. Heck hes probably right in a lot of them that the US and UK do represent the biggest threat to Iran. Was the axis of evil speech any less provocative? Sure the attacks on Israel are nasty, but again nothing too shocking for anyone who has any knowledge of the rest of the world.
Now the drama snippets and "news" shows that make the Israelis into children eaters are pretty disheartening, (although the global coke conspiracy was kinda funny hehe) but thats about the only thing in this report that seemed shocking. |
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Juregen
Joined: 30 May 2006
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 10:36 am Post subject: |
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| Green Tea wrote: |
| happeningthang wrote: |
People just straight up hate Jews?? Why?? |
The jews were hated in Germany because they exploit people and would hoard money instead of cycling it back into society. They were know to be terribly cheap and refuse to offer a fair rate for anything. Jews were also often involved in seedy businesses like pimping, drugs, pornography and bootleg alcohol. By hoarding their money, they were able to corrupt public officials and create power structures. This is where zionism comes from. Zionists are the real focus of hate, not the religious jews. The Nazis hated zionists who were not interested in building Germany, but only enriching themselves and other zionists.
The Arabs hate the jews because of Israel. Plain and simple. Jerusalem is a holy place, and the zionists annexed it and subjugated the Palestinian people. |
You are aware that you are being sarcastic right?
I agree that Zionism isn't much better then Nazism, but i know some jews and i can honestly tell you that the image you are painting does not come close to the image i have of the Jews. Freaks are everywhere. |
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Juregen
Joined: 30 May 2006
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 10:38 am Post subject: |
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| ChopChaeJoe wrote: |
Losers need to pinpoint an enemy. Since a loser generally has problems in very direction, and being a loser he can't do anything about it, he focuses his energy on hating a conveinent scapegoat.
The rasons for hating jews are usually the same stuff people hate black people about.
And it's all just ignorance, prejudice, and b.s. |
And how can we difuse this? The fact stands, but we want to improve overall. |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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