|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
archer904
Joined: 04 Sep 2006
|
 Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 11:43 pm Post subject: Lawyer:Quitting & Leaving NOT Illegal for E2 Visa Holder |
 |
|
As many of you have heard (and as I believed), you must have permission from your employer to leave the country, as your visa is sponsored by your employer.
Some people say this is true. They haven't checked the laws.
Some people say this is false. They also haven't checked the laws.
So we're in a situation where nobody can back up what they say. Everyone is pulling midnight runners and half of them think immigration may be right on their heels. Some people claim to know people who tried to leave and got arrested.
Well, I've been in contact with a Korean lawyer who has looked up the regluations and here is his response. I hope this puts the issue to bed for many people.
| Keun Dong Lee at SIGONG LAW wrote: |
It seems that there may have been many misunderstandings about Korean immigration law matters over the community of English teachers (as E-2 visa status, hereinafter �English teachers or an English teacher�) in Korea.
An English teacher can leave Korea without any permission from his/her employer. Employers have no authority to prohibit or involve themselves in the attempts for foreign workers to leave Korea.
According to Korean Immigration Act, if an employer terminate (or dismiss) an employment contract, then the employer must report that termination to the Immigration Office within 15 days. And then, the foreign employee has to return his/her Foreigner�s Registration Card to the Immigration Office and receive an expatriation order. When the foreign employee receives that order, he/she has to leave Korea within 14 days.
Because the process above is legally organized, English teachers don�t have to worry about any arrest, fine, or imprisonment at the time to leave Korea. However, if that English teachers don�t leave Korea within 14 days from the order, then they are in illegal status and could be fined(In some cases, arrestment or imprisonment is possible. However, it rarely happens in the Airport when they leave Korea. Because, the arrestment and the imprisonment are tools to enforce deportation of illegal foreigners outside Korea, when they voluntarily leave Korea, that enforcement is not needed.)
It seems that the misunderstanding above may be due to the system of �must receive employer�s agreement in advance in case of changing job place(or employer)�.
If a foreign employee does not want to change job place(or employer) but only want to leave Korea after the termination of the employment agreement, then there may be not any legal problems at all.
|
Mr. Lee has graciously agreed to answer additional questions if we have them. Send them to me via this thread or PM if you prefer. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 12:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
What percentage of people are stupid enough seriously to believe you need your employer's permission to leave?
Come to think of it, it's probably a two-digit number. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Aussiekimchi
Joined: 21 Apr 2006
Location: SYDNEY
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 12:11 am Post subject: |
|
|
Good to know these things ..good karma for you to post this info.
Nothing to worry about now at the airport unless you get a Korean with a hangover and his wife just left him for a foreigner.
I would imagine though that most of the people concerned about the law when doing a midnight run are those who wish to return to Korea and get another job. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
archer904
Joined: 04 Sep 2006
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 12:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Aussiekimchi wrote: |
I would imagine though that most of the people concerned about the law when doing a midnight run are those who wish to return to Korea and get another job. |
Well, some people have been worried about getting arrested trying to leave.
Coming back is a whole other issue. There have been reports that some employers have "put a note in a foreigner's file" that has kept them from being able to get another job. The way the story is told, though, the new employer doesn't find out until he takes the teacher to get his Alien Registration Card, and sometimes the teacher is then released. Again, this is hearsay, so maybe it is a good question for the lawyer. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
archer904
Joined: 04 Sep 2006
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BigBuds
Joined: 15 Sep 2005
Location: Changwon
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 2:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
Archer, you forgot to add the link to the other thread where you spouted this sh*t before and said it was the law. We told you it was totally incorrect then, and now you put this up like you're some sort of genius even though this is what we told you last week.
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?p=966478&highlight=#966478
All the laws that apply to teachers in this country are readily available in English. There's no need for you to run off to a lawyer to check everytime you are contradicted. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
archer904
Joined: 04 Sep 2006
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
| BigBuds wrote: |
| Archer, you forgot to add the link to the other thread where you spouted this sh*t before and said it was the law. We told you it was totally incorrect then, and now you put this up like you're some sort of genius even though this is what we told you last week. |
Hey, I formulated my opinion the same way you formulated yours: from hearing from other people (secondary sources). I made a mistake, and I'm admitting it so everyone can benefit from the truth. And you want to tear me down for that? It shows your character.
| BigBuds wrote: |
| All the laws that apply to teachers in this country are readily available in English. There's no need for you to run off to a lawyer to check everytime you are contradicted. |
Do you not verify information when you're contradicted? The two other options appear to be: 1) Blindly change your opinion, or 2) Stubbornly hold your ground. I looked it up. No reason to get irate. Good grief. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dodgy Al
Joined: 15 May 2004
Location: Seoul
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Archer, it wasn't an opinion you formulated, it was misinformation. You've probably learnt your lesson now, but you should really be sure of the facts before stating something 'factual'. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
| archer904 wrote: |
[]
Do you not verify information when you're contradicted? The two other options appear to be: 1) Blindly change your opinion, or 2) Stubbornly hold your ground. I looked it up. No reason to get irate. Good grief. |
Then why did you just edit your post today in that thread above? You forget your second post in that thread where you claimed it was against the law. Better hurry up and edit that post.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
the eye
Joined: 29 Jan 2004
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
| BigBuds wrote: |
Archer, you forgot to add the link to the other thread where you spouted this sh*t before and said it was the law. We told you it was totally incorrect then, and now you put this up like you're some sort of genius even though this is what we told you last week.
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?p=966478&highlight=#966478
All the laws that apply to teachers in this country are readily available in English. There's no need for you to run off to a lawyer to check everytime you are contradicted. |
Exactly.
First it was THE LAW. Then it was his personal experience. Then it was 'seconday info that formulated his position'.
So basically, he's been passing second hand info as fact.
Not only are the regulations available through the immigration website, but also EFL-LAW.com. It's been covered to death over there.
Such a regulation, if it existed, would be included in our visa papers, or at least our work contracts.
Archer904, People, including me, are hostile towards you here because you initiate pissing contests on an empty bladder. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
archer904
Joined: 04 Sep 2006
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 6:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
| the eye wrote: |
First it was THE LAW. Then it was his personal experience. Then it was 'seconday info that formulated his position'.
So basically, he's been passing second hand info as fact. |
Have a hard time with the definition of "secondary source" eye? A secondary source is that which provides information not directly i.e. it is not the entity that originates said information. A good example is an encyclopedia. Therefore, anything you or I say is a secondary source, including my personal experience (which was mistaken). Also, EFL-LAW.com is a secondary source. The only primary source in the matter would be the text of the Korean laws. Haven't seen any of those yet.
ANYTHING YOU SAY, ANY OPINION YOU HOLD is secondary information unless it pertains to you (like your favorite color). In my case, it has to do with a teacher I knew that spent some time detained, who must not have been honest with me about why she was detained (after reading what the lawyer wrote).
| the eye wrote: |
Not only are the regulations available through the immigration website, but also EFL-LAW.com. It's been covered to death over there.
Such a regulation, if it existed, would be included in our visa papers, or at least our work contracts.
|
Our visa papers? My visa papers consist of a little piece of paper adhered to a passport page. There are a ton of immigration laws that exist, and apply to me, that aren't printed on that piece of paper. There are also immigration laws that apply to me that are not listed in any work contracts (e.g. the entire text of the Korean Immigration Act).
If you want to hijack another thread with comments about how stupid I am, go ahead, waste your time. I don't really care. I put the information up so people would have it, and there it remains. I've done what I came here to do, and so won't be checking this thread any longer. If anyone else has questions they'd like the attorney to answer PM me, and I'll pass them along to him. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Novernae
Joined: 02 Mar 2005
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 6:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
What percentage of people are stupid enough seriously to believe you need your employer's permission to leave?
Come to think of it, it's probably a two-digit number. |
Most of the ones who are stupid enough to think that are, for some reason, generally the same ones who tend to get caught in situations where a midnight run is necessary (I think their lack of research ability follows them everywhere, and yet somehow they convinced some university to give them a degree). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
chronicpride
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 7:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
| archer904 wrote: |
| the eye wrote: |
First it was THE LAW. Then it was his personal experience. Then it was 'seconday info that formulated his position'.
So basically, he's been passing second hand info as fact. |
Have a hard time with the definition of "secondary source" eye? A secondary source is that which provides information not directly i.e. it is not the entity that originates said information. A good example is an encyclopedia. Therefore, anything you or I say is a secondary source, including my personal experience (which was mistaken). Also, EFL-LAW.com is a secondary source. The only primary source in the matter would be the text of the Korean laws. Haven't seen any of those yet.
ANYTHING YOU SAY, ANY OPINION YOU HOLD is secondary information unless it pertains to you (like your favorite color). In my case, it has to do with a teacher I knew that spent some time detained, who must not have been honest with me about why she was detained (after reading what the lawyer wrote).
| the eye wrote: |
Not only are the regulations available through the immigration website, but also EFL-LAW.com. It's been covered to death over there.
Such a regulation, if it existed, would be included in our visa papers, or at least our work contracts.
|
Our visa papers? My visa papers consist of a little piece of paper adhered to a passport page. There are a ton of immigration laws that exist, and apply to me, that aren't printed on that piece of paper. There are also immigration laws that apply to me that are not listed in any work contracts (e.g. the entire text of the Korean Immigration Act).
If you want to hijack another thread with comments about how stupid I am, go ahead, waste your time. I don't really care. I put the information up so people would have it, and there it remains. I've done what I came here to do, and so won't be checking this thread any longer. If anyone else has questions they'd like the attorney to answer PM me, and I'll pass them along to him. |
PS. there is a secondary sourced law on this site that states that you must have at least two experiences of the same nature before thinking that you've got something all figured out and can make blanket statements that encompass all of Korea, Koreans, or the ESL industry here. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Roch
Joined: 24 Apr 2003
Location: Seoul
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
| archer904 wrote: |
| BigBuds wrote: |
| Archer, you forgot to add the link to the other thread where you spouted this sh*t before and said it was the law. We told you it was totally incorrect then, and now you put this up like you're some sort of genius even though this is what we told you last week. |
Hey, I formulated my opinion the same way you formulated yours: from hearing from other people (secondary sources). I made a mistake, and I'm admitting it so everyone can benefit from the truth. And you want to tear me down for that? It shows your character.
| BigBuds wrote: |
| All the laws that apply to teachers in this country are readily available in English. There's no need for you to run off to a lawyer to check everytime you are contradicted. |
Do you not verify information when you're contradicted? The two other options appear to be: 1) Blindly change your opinion, or 2) Stubbornly hold your ground. I looked it up. No reason to get irate. Good grief. |
Archer,
May I have the address of the organization you mentioned that helps E.F.L. instructors who've been forked over?
By the way, I was hired last Friday by a T.E.F.L. institute in Daechi-dong, Seoul. 3 million for a 4pm to 10pm work schedule from Monday to Friday.
Wish me luck and take good care! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Pak Yu Man
Joined: 02 Jun 2005
Location: The Ida galaxy
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 3:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
What? So my school doesn't have a security force waiting at every available point of departure in this country?
Wow my life just came tumbling down.
Of course you can leave whenever you want. Hand in your ARC and wave bye-bye. If you are super paranoid just go and get a multi-entry visa and leave. Immigration will then think "there's a 50% chance that guy will come back".
Forcing someone to stay in country is called kidnapping or slavery. Last time I checked they were both illegal, but if you are working at a hagwon you're already a slave. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
