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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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 Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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| So now I'm an anti-semite because I posted an article from CNN on this forum? Man, the thinkers on this board continue to blow my mind. |
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NAVFC
Joined: 10 May 2006
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Octavius Hite wrote: |
| So now I'm an anti-semite because I posted an article from CNN on this forum? Man, the thinkers on this board continue to blow my mind. |
I called the UN anti semitical. Not you. Mayhaps you need a refresher course in reading. ALl I said of you, is that you and othrs have criticized our alliance with Israel. |
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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Well I also criticised the alliance between China and North Korea, so am I anti-Korean? Come on, the alliance like any alliance is open to criticism. And the brunt of my criticism is not about the alliance per se but the alliance's apparent blindness to Israeli behaviour and its consequences across the middle east. Now you will start screaming about Arab crimes, blah blah blah. That's a smoke screen (much like the accusations of anti-semitism) Israeli supporters throw in our face whenever we ask a fair question about their behaviour. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Octavius Hite wrote: |
| So now I'm an anti... |
Give me a moment, Octavius. I'll make a list of all the "anti" things you are, dude.
(kidding) |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Octavius Hite wrote: |
| Come on, the alliance like any alliance is open to criticism. And the brunt of my criticism is not about the alliance per se but the alliance's apparent blindness to Israeli behaviour and its consequences across the middle east. |
This is what I was trying to infer earlier. I am going brain dead today so I couldn't even put something as straight forward as this comment together.
Basically NAVFC, it is your belief and argument that leads to the USA giving 6 billion dollars/year to Israel. There is no way we need to give them that much assistance. Israel is about as developed as South Korea, so not like it needs our aid. While we station troops in South Korea, I don't think our presence costs us 6 billion dollars/year. |
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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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Swings both ways, the anti-door does, Gopher  |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Octavius Hite wrote: |
| Swings both ways, the anti-door does, Gopher |
But I ain't "anti," baby. I'm "anti anti."
...Get it right. |
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NAVFC
Joined: 10 May 2006
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Octavius Hite wrote: |
| Well I also criticised the alliance between China and North Korea, so am I anti-Korean? Come on, the alliance like any alliance is open to criticism. And the brunt of my criticism is not about the alliance per se but the alliance's apparent blindness to Israeli behaviour and its consequences across the middle east. Now you will start screaming about Arab crimes, blah blah blah. That's a smoke screen (much like the accusations of anti-semitism) Israeli supporters throw in our face whenever we ask a fair question about their behaviour. |
Alot of Israels so called behaviors which you are likely referring to are PLO/terrorist PR campaigns. There was a pice done on Hzbollahs faking of atrocities during the Lebanon war.
Israel is a nation that is constantly under attack. terror attacks happen all the time, as well as rockets being fired into Israel costing Israeli lives. This all said Israel is more then justified at militarily engaging It's enemies, especially when Israel gives and gives with no results.
The PLO wanted Gaza , Israel gave Gaza..and what do they get? Gaza becomes the new launching pad of Qassam rockets.
israel retaliates militarily. Civilians die, sadly, but that happens in all wars.
In 2000 Hezbollah demanded Lebanon. Israel with drew.
What does Israel get? A new campaign by Hezbollah to attack Israel.
In 2000, the Israeli Prime minister was willing to sacrifice more then any other for a PLO state. Even offering up half of the Holy city of Jerusalem for a palestinian capital. That, and all of the west bank...The most generous offer ever, and what does Arafat do? Walks out , disagrees, and begins a terror war on Israel.
Israel has bent over backwards tot ry and appease the terrorists and it failed every single last time.
But when Israel is attacked time and time again day after day after day and the international community, except for the US does nothing to aide it, what do you expect? The terrorists attack israel and the UN asks Israel to show restraint, but does not even address the issue of stopping the terrorists.
So israel is well within her right to strike targets of terror militarily, terror suppliers, (both monetary and hard ware) terror leaders, terror weapon hising places.
Its dumb how some here address the so called Israeli crimes, with high civilian casualties etc but yet not one of those same people, such as Mr Octavius Hite, address the fact that israel's enemies often store their weapons in civilian areas deliberately, or attack from civilian areas, so that civilians will die and make Israel look bad.
ALso case in point in 1982 Israel was in a military campaign against terror in Lebanon. The PLO came out with a photo of a baby that looked like it had lost both it's arms and been burned, the claim was it was Israel.
This so disgusted Ronald Reagan that he pressured Israel to stop. Though come later it was found out said baby did not lose it's ams, and was burned by a PLO attack in East beirut.
Many of but the terror prcampaigns hook line and sinker.
But as I have just listed here, given the enemy's MO of shacking up in civilian areas with weapons, attaciking from civilian areas, or asing it's leadership there, civilian casualties are unavoidable.
Israel is fully justified in preserving it's own nation. |
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NAVFC
Joined: 10 May 2006
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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| bucheon bum wrote: |
| Octavius Hite wrote: |
| Come on, the alliance like any alliance is open to criticism. And the brunt of my criticism is not about the alliance per se but the alliance's apparent blindness to Israeli behaviour and its consequences across the middle east. |
This is what I was trying to infer earlier. I am going brain dead today so I couldn't even put something as straight forward as this comment together.
Basically NAVFC, it is your belief and argument that leads to the USA giving 6 billion dollars/year to Israel. There is no way we need to give them that much assistance. Israel is about as developed as South Korea, so not like it needs our aid. While we station troops in South Korea, I don't think our presence costs us 6 billion dollars/year. |
Reallly? How much does it cost Israel to maintain it's military, which is necessary because that nations military is in a constant state of war due to terrorists and there state sponsors.
You have that, the reconstruction, and keeping Israel's economy floating in the wake of terror..Look what 9-11 did to the US economy..now imagine ISrael..what would her economy be like without any aid? |
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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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You see this is the problem for every Arab atrocity you point out I can point out one Israel committed. It goes both ways. The only thing is that I want it to end. I want Israel to exist and the Arab's to stop attacking it. But its pretty clear that what Israel does as a response to terrorism doesn't stop or prevent terrorism, otherwise Israel would be the safest place in the world.
It's also pretty clear that what the Arab's are doing won't change anything because its unlikely that Israel is going anywhwere. If we could agree to that maybe we could get some where. |
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freethought
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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| NAVFC wrote: |
Reallly? How much does it cost Israel to maintain it's military, which is necessary because that nations military is in a constant state of war due to terrorists and there state sponsors.
You have that, the reconstruction, and keeping Israel's economy floating in the wake of terror..Look what 9-11 did to the US economy..now imagine ISrael..what would her economy be like without any aid? |
This is a perfect example of the failure to 'understand' the middle east/Israeli 'situation'.
When you say Israel is in a "constant state of war due to terrorists..." I say, there are terrorists because Israel is in illegal occupation of land that doesn't belong to them. In turn you likely say that there was terrorism before the 67 war, and I say yes, but NOT on the same level. It goes on.
The issue is that Israel's existence came about by depriving other peoples. Hardly a unique story (see founding of the Americas), but an important part of this equation.
The larger matter is that to criticize Israel is perfectly legitimate, because there's a lot to criticize. Criticizing the PLO, Hamas, Hezbollah etc is also perfectly legitimate, because there's a HELL of a lot to criticize. But to outlaw or forbid criticism of Israel, or even to call it illegitimate is total bollucks. If you want to defend Israeli policy (or US policy vis-s-vis Israel) go ahead and do so, but do so without adopting the stance of everything is an attack on Israel. |
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NAVFC
Joined: 10 May 2006
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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| freethought wrote: |
| NAVFC wrote: |
Reallly? How much does it cost Israel to maintain it's military, which is necessary because that nations military is in a constant state of war due to terrorists and there state sponsors.
You have that, the reconstruction, and keeping Israel's economy floating in the wake of terror..Look what 9-11 did to the US economy..now imagine ISrael..what would her economy be like without any aid? |
This is a perfect example of the failure to 'understand' the middle east/Israeli 'situation'.
When you say Israel is in a "constant state of war due to terrorists..." I say, there are terrorists because Israel is in illegal occupation of land that doesn't belong to them. In turn you likely say that there was terrorism before the 67 war, and I say yes, but NOT on the same level. It goes on.
The issue is that Israel's existence came about by depriving other peoples. Hardly a unique story (see founding of the Americas), but an important part of this equation.
The larger matter is that to criticize Israel is perfectly legitimate, because there's a lot to criticize. Criticizing the PLO, Hamas, Hezbollah etc is also perfectly legitimate, because there's a HELL of a lot to criticize. But to outlaw or forbid criticism of Israel, or even to call it illegitimate is total bollucks. If you want to defend Israeli policy (or US policy vis-s-vis Israel) go ahead and do so, but do so without adopting the stance of everything is an attack on Israel. |
Illegal occupation my ass.
WHO started the 1967 day war? Sure as hell wasn't Israel.
Those nations all decided to invade Israel and attack her, and in response Israel took some land, IE: The golan heights.
Poor Arabs...boo hoo hoo.
What do they expect when they launch a war such as the 67 war?
There lucky to even be alive! At first, Israel was losing that war and the Defense minister ordered Jericho missiles and Israeli fighters armed with nukes.
But thent he war turned for Israel and the nuke plan was aborted.
Also, israel has the original claims to that land. The Palestinians are a descendent of Israeli's orignal enemy, the phillistines. They came about after several rebel groups banded together and created their own people so to speak.
Who the hell brought up OUTLAWING criticizing Israel?? |
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freethought
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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| thank you for proving my point. |
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Also, israel has the original claims to that land. The Palestinians are a descendent of Israeli's orignal enemy, the phillistines. They came about after several rebel groups banded together and created their own people so to speak.
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Let's not bring that up. To think in those terms would destroy the entire world, where do you stop giving land back to people it was taken from? |
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NAVFC
Joined: 10 May 2006
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| freethought wrote: |
| thank you for proving my point. |
I didnt prove your point. I just disproved it. Your whining because Israel took some land during the 67 war.
ALl throughout history you can find instances where nations who start wars lose land to the nation they attacked when it retaliates.\
The Arabs have no right to complain about land they lost during a war that they started. If you cant bear the consequences of war then dont start the war.
The modern PLO terrorists are just like Israel's old phillistine enemy, infact the world palestine is derived from that word. |
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