|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
|
 Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 10:12 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| So you accuse me of lying, and then when I say I am not and show you how, you say you don't care (spirtuality). You haven't answered anything, nor are you going to. I guess we might as well stop then. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 10:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| red dog wrote: |
| Mods, we have a troll on our hands. He needs to leave. |
You and Rteacher have so much in common. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
red dog
Joined: 31 Oct 2004
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 10:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| laogaiguk wrote: |
| So you accuse me of lying, and then when I say I am not and show you how, you say you don't care (spirtuality). You haven't answered anything, nor are you going to. I guess we might as well stop then. |
Goodbye. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 10:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| red dog wrote: |
| laogaiguk wrote: |
| So you accuse me of lying, and then when I say I am not and show you how, you say you don't care (spirtuality). You haven't answered anything, nor are you going to. I guess we might as well stop then. |
Goodbye. |
Oh, I'm not done with the thread. I hope someone comes along and actually answers my questions. I would like to have a debate with adults. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
gang ah jee
Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Location: city of paper
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 10:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Oh hey I found some awesome livestock pictures.
Here's a sample:
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
pastis
Joined: 20 Jun 2006
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 10:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| laogaiguk wrote: |
| How do you know if your are not in someway harming plants by eating them? They were also never made for agriculture. We shaped them for that. Personally, I couldn't care less, because I don't create this line (though I think animals rights for good lives are important) that vegetarians do. But how do they create this line? Plants are living beings too, aren't they? |
(see bold): fine, since you insist on being a muppet, I'll un-dulge you. We don't know. I can't prove otherwise anymore than I can prove there's not an obese purple orangutan mating with the dark side of Uranus. It's simply not prove-able. But if you wanna subscribe to some asinine "faith" that plants feel pain, go ahead, it's kind of amusing to see a dunce at work.
Bottom line, when you receive breaking news that "plant pain" has been scientifically demonstrated, I'll listen. In the meantime, I'll follow all the evidence that shows the exact opposite to be the case. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 10:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| pastis wrote: |
Bottom line, when you receive breaking news that "plant pain" has been scientifically demonstrated, I'll listen. In the meantime, I'll follow all the evidence that shows the exact opposite to be the case. |
That's what I am looking for. That's a real answer I can accept. That's how you draw your line (also with the lobsters). It's not a line based arbitrarily on your beliefs, but a provable, scientific one. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
red dog
Joined: 31 Oct 2004
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 10:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| pastis wrote: |
| laogaiguk wrote: |
| How do you know if your are not in someway harming plants by eating them? They were also never made for agriculture. We shaped them for that. Personally, I couldn't care less, because I don't create this line (though I think animals rights for good lives are important) that vegetarians do. But how do they create this line? Plants are living beings too, aren't they? |
(see bold): fine, since you insist on being a muppet, I'll un-dulge you. We don't know. I can't prove otherwise anymore than I can prove there's not an obese purple orangutan mating with the dark side of Uranus. It's simply not prove-able. But if you wanna subscribe to some asinine "faith" that plants feel pain, go ahead, it's kind of amusing to see a dunce at work.
Bottom line, when you receive breaking news that "plant pain" has been scientifically demonstrated, I'll listen. In the meantime, I'll follow all the evidence that shows the exact opposite to be the case. |
Well said. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
red dog
Joined: 31 Oct 2004
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 10:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| laogaiguk wrote: |
| pastis wrote: |
Bottom line, when you receive breaking news that "plant pain" has been scientifically demonstrated, I'll listen. In the meantime, I'll follow all the evidence that shows the exact opposite to be the case. |
That's what I am looking for. That's a real answer I can accept. That's how you draw your line (also with the lobsters). It's not a line based arbitrarily on your beliefs, but a provable, scientific one. |
So now you'll leave us? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 10:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| So what happens when the animal activist terrorists, and yes, they are terroists, decide to up the ante? They have done a lot worse than this, including some massive vandalism and arson? They (atleast so far) try to be careful, but they have hurt people (no one killed as far as I know) already, by accident. But still... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
gang ah jee
Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Location: city of paper
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 10:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I feel compelled to add that if you accept evolution, you should also accept that plants don't feel pain. There is absolutely no reason for a plant to feel pain. Pain just a signal to indicate that something bad is happening, but such a signal is useless to plants, which can't do anything about it. If plants 'feel' anything like 'pain' it will be caused by things like lack of sunlight, insufficient soil nutrients etc. So sorry, laogaiguk, the 'where does one draw the line' argument is fruitless. So to speak.
Me, I draw the line at people. That is to say, I'm comfortable to say that I think that people should be killed under almost no circumstances, and never eaten. Chimps, slightly less so; monkeys less so; and so down. It's all a continuum, and just like we have to use our judgment to decide whether or not another human should die, so too we use our judgment to decide if other animals should die, on a continuum of value, descending from us and ours.
According to my own judgment, animals raised for meat are eminently edible. Whether the system is a sustainable one is another question. That was the question to which my response was vegetarianism. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 11:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| gang ah jee wrote: |
I feel compelled to add that if you accept evolution, you should also accept that plants don't feel pain. There is absolutely no reason for a plant to feel pain. Pain just a signal to indicate that something bad is happening, but such a signal is useless to plants, which can't do anything about it. If plants 'feel' anything like 'pain' it will be caused by things like lack of sunlight, insufficient soil nutrients etc. So sorry, laogaiguk, the 'where does one draw the line' argument is fruitless. So to speak.
Me, I draw the line at people. That is to say, I'm comfortable to say that I think that people should be killed under almost no circumstances, and never eaten. Chimps, slightly less so; monkeys less so; and so down. It's all a continuum, and just like we have to use our judgment to decide whether or not another human should die, so too we use our judgment to decide if other animals should die, on a continuum of value, descending from us and ours.
According to my own judgment, animals raised for meat are eminently edible. Whether the system is a sustainable one is another question. That was the question to which my response was vegetarianism. |
I don't believe it (I didn't say this before cause reddog would just ignore the questions and focus on that) But I am trying to show where people draw the line, and if it is a moral line or a clear scientific line. It's not fruitless in that sense.
For example, pastis cuts it off when they feel pain (and has been shown, or proven to have pain). I have no problem with this, it's compltely rational. But not all do it upon such a logical premise. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
red dog
Joined: 31 Oct 2004
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 11:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
I feel compelled to add that if you accept evolution, you should also accept that plants don't feel pain. There is absolutely no reason for a plant to feel pain. Pain just a signal to indicate that something bad is happening, but such a signal is useless to plants, which can't do anything about it. If plants 'feel' anything like 'pain' it will be caused by things like lack of sunlight, insufficient soil nutrients etc. So sorry, laogaiguk, the 'where does one draw the line' argument is fruitless. So to speak.
|
Good point ... and many other people have said all this many times before. I'm afraid you lost me after that paragraph, though. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
red dog
Joined: 31 Oct 2004
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 11:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| laogaiguk wrote: |
| gang ah jee wrote: |
I feel compelled to add that if you accept evolution, you should also accept that plants don't feel pain. There is absolutely no reason for a plant to feel pain. Pain just a signal to indicate that something bad is happening, but such a signal is useless to plants, which can't do anything about it. If plants 'feel' anything like 'pain' it will be caused by things like lack of sunlight, insufficient soil nutrients etc. So sorry, laogaiguk, the 'where does one draw the line' argument is fruitless. So to speak.
Me, I draw the line at people. That is to say, I'm comfortable to say that I think that people should be killed under almost no circumstances, and never eaten. Chimps, slightly less so; monkeys less so; and so down. It's all a continuum, and just like we have to use our judgment to decide whether or not another human should die, so too we use our judgment to decide if other animals should die, on a continuum of value, descending from us and ours.
According to my own judgment, animals raised for meat are eminently edible. Whether the system is a sustainable one is another question. That was the question to which my response was vegetarianism. |
I don't believe it (I didn't say this before cause reddog would just ignore the questions and focus on that) But I am trying to show where people draw the line, and if it is a moral line or a clear scientific line. It's not fruitless in that sense.
For example, pastis cuts it off when they feel pain (and has been shown, or proven to have pain). I have no problem with this, it's compltely rational. But not all do it upon such a logical premise. |
In other words, you're just trolling. Please leave. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 11:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| red dog wrote: |
In other words, you're just trolling. Please leave. |
I'm not trolling. Look up the word and stop using it. Grow up.
It's all hypothetical. I set up a situation farther than vegetarians take their beliefs to see if they would go farther if proven to be true. I would normally say I don't believe it right away and just pose it as a hypothetical situation, but AS YOU JUST PROVED, my suspicion was correct that you would do exactly what you just did. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
