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red dog
Joined: 31 Oct 2004
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 Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Nambucaveman wrote: |
| red dog wrote: |
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You do not see this as "rude"? Because I am fairly certain this passes the reasonable-person-would-see-this-as-rude test. And I would like to see all of this rudeness moderated, across the board.
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I didn't read the post you're referring to, but good point. And good point about the mods having punished people for reacting to posts that any reasonable person would see as rude. Unfortunately there've been a few cases recently where the mods just sat back and allowed idiots (and yes, they deserve to be called that based on their behaviour) to sabotage what could have been intelligent, civil discussions. We need mods to step in with more than just vague admonitions about civility, especially when ther own conduct has been anything but civil. |
Actually you don't know what goes on behind the scenes or who gets what punishment because we don't discuss those types of things. The only way to tell is if someone "disappears" for awhile. If your talking about someone having a sock, then show me proof and I'll act on it.
NC |
I wasn't talking about socks. Whose sock did you think I was talking about, and what sort of "proof" do you need?
I was referring to the general content of these boards (not only CE) and the fact that a number of posters have gotten away with all manner of vulgar, abusive and trollish behaviour -- while I've been punished for reacting to blatant provocation.
I know that I've spent pages on certain threads setting out serious, well-thought-out arguments and gotten nothing but mocking posts and insults in response. I know that the posters in question were allowed to go ahead and derail those discussions. I also know that I was told I wasn't allowed to tell them to **** off (asterisks are OK, right?) after they levelled all sorts of abuse at me and ruined the threads so no one could participate seriously even if they were interested in the subject matter. And I know I was accused of doing things I didn't do.
More recently, one of those same individuals engaged in exactly the same behaviour in the hen rescue thread here on CE. I didn't see any mods around then. It seems that enforcement of the rules is rather selective around here. |
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Nambucaveman
Joined: 03 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 12:27 am Post subject: |
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We had a discussion awhile back about someone's sock, so I thought you might have been referring to that. I guess not.
As I've said before, the mods can't be everywhere all the time. We are not able to read every thread, that's why we encourage self-policing.
NC |
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red dog
Joined: 31 Oct 2004
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| Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:28 am Post subject: |
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| Nambucaveman wrote: |
We had a discussion awhile back about someone's sock, so I thought you might have been referring to that. I guess not.
As I've said before, the mods can't be everywhere all the time. We are not able to read every thread, that's why we encourage self-policing.
NC |
You clearly did read some of those threads and thought it was OK for other people to behave the way they did -- but not for me to fight back. Someone should have stepped in sooner and kept those discussions on track. Just dropping by once in a while to say "don't flame each other" and locking a thread is not very helpful. |
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Nambucaveman
Joined: 03 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:13 am Post subject: |
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Whether I did or didn't read the thread depends on which of many thread you might be talking about. The mod team edits and removes posts all the time, sometimes even before you see them. Also you have no idea who I've warned via pm's or not (and again I'll point out the mod team doesn't discuss what was done or said to whom).
If you have such good information on this please tell me why the attacks on you have come to a screeching halt. Certainly as much as you complain, I wonder why anyone would even listen to you.
NC |
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red dog
Joined: 31 Oct 2004
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| Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:28 am Post subject: |
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| Nambucaveman wrote: |
Whether I did or didn't read the thread depends on which of many thread you might be talking about. The mod team edits and removes posts all the time, sometimes even before you see them. Also you have no idea who I've warned via pm's or not (and again I'll point out the mod team doesn't discuss what was done or said to whom).
If you have such good information on this please tell me why the attacks on you have come to a screeching halt. Certainly as much as you complain, I wonder why anyone would even listen to you.
NC |
They have? I didn't notice. And it's quite obvious I'm not the only person who has these concerns. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 3:28 am Post subject: |
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And it's quite obvious I'm not the only person who has these concerns.
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You may be defining 'person' differently than other people do. |
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cbclark4
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan
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| Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 6:48 am Post subject: |
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| bucheon bum wrote: |
| cbclark4 wrote: |
As far as insults go, people shouldn't take them seriously, actually none of this stuff should be taken seriously. Leave the seriousness for something that you can actually have an impact on.
cbc |
well-said.
And btw, I appreciate your civil behavior. |
While posting in the draft thread the other day I was tempted to roll a car and start it on fire.
cbc |
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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| cbclark4 wrote: |
| bucheon bum wrote: |
| cbclark4 wrote: |
As far as insults go, people shouldn't take them seriously, actually none of this stuff should be taken seriously. Leave the seriousness for something that you can actually have an impact on.
cbc |
well-said.
And btw, I appreciate your civil behavior. |
While posting in the draft thread the other day I was tempted to roll a car and start it on fire.
cbc |
You should atleast do it to an SUV, those gas guzzling *****.
Mod Edit: Edited for language. |
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corroonb
Joined: 04 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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I made those (ill-thought out) comments about the Iran thread and I apologise if I offeneded anyone, particulary OTOH who is not childish or immature and is one of the more reasonable people on this board, right or left. I was commenting on the source article and the subsequent treatment of one poster which was excessively personal and insulting.
Regardless I think some people really do have to tone down the "trash talk" but they tend to be a very visible minority who can hijack threads and lower the tone of the discussion. Again if I have offended anyone, I apologise. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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| ...the subsequent treatment of one poster which was excessively personal and insulting...I think some people really do have to tone down the "trash talk..." |
One more comment, Nambucaveman: I think the above language shows perhaps the most glaring problem in "self-policing" the forum.
Who gets to define what is "excessively personal," "insulting," or "trash talk"?
The mods? Any poster? Any poster? Should these posters be empowered to force all others to accept their own definitions?
I suggest we have a philosphically hopeless situation on our hands, as I believe Bucheon Bum, On the Other Hand, and Nowhere Man seem to agree, above, and, if unchecked we might soon find ourselves dominated by posters -- "vigilante mods," if you will -- who might perhaps suffer, to one degree or another, hypersensitivity to slight.
However this may be, I also suggest we confine our "self-policing" to matters that directly relate to our own posts and our own exhchanges of views. And let's let only the mods be the mods here. |
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Nambucaveman
Joined: 03 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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Gopher,
Let me clarify what I mean by self-policing. It's more then just clicking on the report post button. I think when someone says something that is over the edge, someone needs to gently point that out. Who would you rather it come from a mod or a peer?
The other thing is that when a report post is sent, we do go and look at the thread and try to figure out what's going on objectively. I've seen a few report posts where the person who reported it is just looking for attention. Each situation is weighed differently depending on what is going on. I just thought I'd add that tidbit.
NC |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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| made those (ill-thought out) comments about the Iran thread and I apologise if I offeneded anyone, particulary OTOH who is not childish or immature and is one of the more reasonable people on this board, right or left. |
No worries, I wasn't offended at all. I was just using your post as an example of something that some people might find offensive, according to their own interpretation of ths standards. Since I favor a lenient interpretation of those standards, your post fell well within what I would regard as acceptable discourse.
And thank you for the character reference! |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Nambucaveman wrote: |
Let me clarify what I mean by self-policing. It's more then just clicking on the report post button. I think when someone says something that is over the edge, someone needs to gently point that out. Who would you rather it come from a mod or a peer?
The other thing is that when a report post is sent, we do go and look at the thread and try to figure out what's going on objectively. I've seen a few report posts where the person who reported it is just looking for attention. Each situation is weighed differently depending on what is going on. I just thought I'd add that tidbit. |
Sure, everyone ought to respond to anyone else who they think might moderate their language or otherwise restate their views more civilly -- that includes, of course, criticism against myself. However, I think that some of the most emotion-driven posts and attacks actually come from those who claim indignation -- and often-times, as I am sure you know, they are not even directly involved in the discussion or exchange and are simply getting between two or more posters who may be directly, perhaps heatedly, exchanging views, but are not necessarily themsleves offended.
On your second paragraph: it is reassuring to see that you do your best to go about it circumspectly. Cannot really ask for more than that.
Taking all of this in, I would respectfully suggest, to everyone, that people who want to criticise others use civil vocabulary, instead of the usual (at times hysteria-like) accusations.
"Hey. Any chance you might restate this...?"
"Come on, X, isn't there a nicer way you might say that?"
"I understand your position. But can't you moderate what you just said?"
"Do you know that one way of interpreting what you just said is X? Are you sure that is what you want to say?"
Much better, I think, than accusing people of "rudeness," "racism," "immaturity," etc. -- that is, if one's attempt it to convince someone to modify their behavior. It one's attempt is to badger, humiliate, or attack them, provoking neverending attack-counterattack cycles, then I guess what we are doing is already good enough for that... |
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red dog
Joined: 31 Oct 2004
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| Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Nambucaveman wrote: |
Gopher,
Let me clarify what I mean by self-policing. It's more then just clicking on the report post button. I think when someone says something that is over the edge, someone needs to gently point that out. Who would you rather it come from a mod or a peer?
The other thing is that when a report post is sent, we do go and look at the thread and try to figure out what's going on objectively. I've seen a few report posts where the person who reported it is just looking for attention. Each situation is weighed differently depending on what is going on. I just thought I'd add that tidbit.
NC |
If you meant me, you couldn't be more wrong. In fact, all I've ever asked the mods to do is moderate the boards fairly and consistently. Let's take the baby murder thread for example -- I didn't post in it at all, but that didn't stop a certain poster from using it to attack me. I've got better things to do than join that "discussion," but that doesn't mean it's OK or that I'm not offended. We've had several recent threads that touched on the issue of what a hostile place this has become and the way some people attack others without provocation and talk down to people whose posts they don't like ... obviously there are many people here who would like to see some changes. Maybe even a silent majority. |
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Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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But we all know Wrench is... special.
Own his his attacks, proudly wear them as badges of honour. |
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