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Public schools in the U.S.: Then and now
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Bibbitybop



Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 8:52 pm    Post subject: Public schools in the U.S.: Then and now Reply with quote

Scenario: Jack pulls into school parking lot with rifle in gun rack.

1973 - Vice Principal comes over, takes a look at Jack's rifle, goes to his car and gets his to show Jack.

2006 - School goes into lockdown, FBI called, Jack hauled off to jail and never sees his truck or gun again. Counselors called in for traumatized students and teachers.

++++++++++++++++++++++

Scenario: Johnny and Mark get into a fist fight after school.

1973 - Crowd gathers. Mark wins. Johnny and Mark shake hands and end up best friends. Nobody goes to jail, nobody arrested, nobody expelled.

2006 - Police called, SWAT team arrives, arrests Johnny and Mark. Charge them with assault, both expelled even though Johnny started it.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Scenario: Jeffrey won't be still in class, disrupts other students.

1973 - Jeffrey sent to office and given a good paddling by Principal. Sits still in class.

2006 - Jeffrey given huge doses of Ritalin. Becomes a zombie. School gets extra money from state because Jeffrey has a disability.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Scenario: Billy breaks a window in his father's car and his Dad gives him a whipping.

1973 - Billy is more careful next time, grows up normal, goes to college, and becomes a successful businessman.

2006 - Billy's Dad is arrested for child abuse. Billy removed to foster care and joins a gang. Billy's sister is told by state psychologist that she remembers being abused herself and their Dad goes to prison. Billy's mom has affair with psychologist.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Scenario: Mark gets a headache and takes some headache medicine to school.

1973 - Mark shares headache medicine with Principal out on the smoking dock.

2006 - Police called, Mark expelled from school for drug violations. Car searched for drugs and weapons.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

Scenario: Mary turns up pregnant.

1973 - 5 High School Boys leave town. Mary does her senior year at a special school for expectant mothers.

2006 - Middle School Counselor calls Planned Parenthood, who notifies the ACLU. Mary is driven to the next state over and gets an abortion without her parent's consent or knowledge. Mary given condoms and told to be more careful next time.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Scenario: Pedro fails high school English.

1973 : Pedro goes to summer school, passes English, goes to college.

2006 : Pedro's cause is taken up by state democratic party. Newspaper articles appear nationally explaining that teaching English as a requirement for graduation is racist. ACLU files class action lawsuit against state school system and Pedro's English teacher. English banned from core curriculum. Pedro given diploma anyway but ends up mowing lawns for a living because he can't speak English.

+++++++++++++++++++++

Scenario: Johnny takes leftover firecrackers from the 4th of July, puts them in a model airplane paint bottle, blows up a red ant bed .

1973 - Ants die.

2006 - BATF, Homeland Security, FBI called. Johnny charged with domestic terrorism, FBI investigates parents, siblings removed from home, computers confiscated, Johnny's Dad goes on a terror watch list and is never allowed to fly again.

+++++++++++++++++++++

Scenario: Johnny falls while running during recess and scrapes his knee. He is found crying by his teacher, Mary. Mary, hugs him to comfort him.

1973 - In a short time Johnny feels better and goes on playing.

2006 - Mary is accused of being a sexual predator and loses her job. She faces 3 years in State Prison.
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Pligganease



Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: The deep south...

PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's amzing how sadly realistic that post is... Crying or Very sad
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djsmnc



Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Dave's ESL Cafe

PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Incredible, and so true
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Scenario: Mary turns up pregnant.

1973 - 5 High School Boys leave town. Mary does her senior year at a special school for expectant mothers.

2006 - Middle School Counselor calls Planned Parenthood, who notifies the ACLU. Mary is driven to the next state over and gets an abortion without her parent's consent or knowledge. Mary given condoms and told to be more careful next time.



1966- Mary gets pregnant and is kicked out of school. She leaves town in the middle of the night to spare her parents the humiliation. She has her baby in an unwed mothers home and gives it up for adoption, never to see it again. Not having a high school diploma, she can't find a good job, so works at Safeway as a checkout clerk the rest of her working life. Eventually she gets married again and then divorced. She always felt bitter about the minimum wage job she was qualified for. Bringing up kids on a minimum wage job was no picnic.

Her friend Mandy got married her junior year in high school. She was forbidden to go out for any sports because married 'women' are a bad influence on the school girls. Mrs. Jones, her English teacher said she ought to be happy she was allowed to stay in school at all. When she was a young teacher she was forced to quit teaching when she got married because married women were a bad influence on school age children.

I'm rather nostalgic for the good old days, too. Rolling Eyes

While many things have changed, I'm happy that they changed because people have been trying to make things better. It doesn't always work out as intended. However, it's far better to try and fail than to just stubbornly defend tradition because 'that's the way it's always been'.
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RACETRAITOR



Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul, South Korea

PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya-ta Boy wrote:
Quote:
Scenario: Mary turns up pregnant.

1973 - 5 High School Boys leave town. Mary does her senior year at a special school for expectant mothers.

2006 - Middle School Counselor calls Planned Parenthood, who notifies the ACLU. Mary is driven to the next state over and gets an abortion without her parent's consent or knowledge. Mary given condoms and told to be more careful next time.



1966- Mary gets pregnant and is kicked out of school. She leaves town in the middle of the night to spare her parents the humiliation. She has her baby in an unwed mothers home and gives it up for adoption, never to see it again. Not having a high school diploma, she can't find a good job, so works at Safeway as a checkout clerk the rest of her working life. Eventually she gets married again and then divorced. She always felt bitter about the minimum wage job she was qualified for. Bringing up kids on a minimum wage job was no picnic.

Her friend Mandy got married her junior year in high school. She was forbidden to go out for any sports because married 'women' are a bad influence on the school girls. Mrs. Jones, her English teacher said she ought to be happy she was allowed to stay in school at all. When she was a young teacher she was forced to quit teaching when she got married because married women were a bad influence on school age children.

I'm rather nostalgic for the good old days, too. Rolling Eyes

While many things have changed, I'm happy that they changed because people have been trying to make things better. It doesn't always work out as intended. However, it's far better to try and fail than to just stubbornly defend tradition because 'that's the way it's always been'.


This is one I think has improved since the good ol' days.
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tophatcat



Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Location: under the hat

PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I graduated high school in the 80�s. In my 4 years at the school I remember 2 girls being pregnant. I have a friend who teaches at this same high school now. So, he keeps me up to date on things in the school. The student body has increased by about 30% since I graduated. He told me that there were about 15-18 students pregnant there last year.

Seems like the system has really improved Ya-ta boy. Think how terrible it would be if it were like the good old days!
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mole



Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Act III

PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow. How many old farts are here?
I made my first abortion a year after we didn't have to tell her parents.
Certainly a slap in the face, sitting in the clinic at 17.
Now, my kid is 16, irresponsible, and they've changed the law again.
We'd have to tell the girl's family.
I don't want them as my in-laws. Make it secret again.
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cdninkorea



Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:53 am    Post subject: Re: Public schools in the U.S.: Then and now Reply with quote

Bibbitybop wrote:
Scenario: Johnny and Mark get into a fist fight after school.

1973 - Crowd gathers. Mark wins. Johnny and Mark shake hands and end up best friends. Nobody goes to jail, nobody arrested, nobody expelled.

2006 - Police called, SWAT team arrives, arrests Johnny and Mark. Charge them with assault, both expelled even though Johnny started it.

I know I'm Canadian, but this certainly wasn't how it was when I was in high school in the late 90's- I got in lots of fights and while I was suspended every time, the police were never called.
Quote:
Scenario: Jeffrey won't be still in class, disrupts other students.

1973 - Jeffrey sent to office and given a good paddling by Principal. Sits still in class.
2006 - Jeffrey given huge doses of Ritalin. Becomes a zombie. School gets extra money from state because Jeffrey has a disability.

I don't disagree that those ADD and ADHD drugs are over-prescribed, but some people really do need them.
Quote:
Scenario: Billy breaks a window in his father's car and his Dad gives him a whipping.

1973 - Billy is more careful next time, grows up normal, goes to college, and becomes a successful businessman.

2006 - Billy's Dad is arrested for child abuse. Billy removed to foster care and joins a gang. Billy's sister is told by state psychologist that she remembers being abused herself and their Dad goes to prison. Billy's mom has affair with psychologist.

I think this is called the 'slippery slope' fallacy- you're running a long chain reaction here where each event is less probable and certain than the one preceding it.
Quote:
Scenario: Mark gets a headache and takes some headache medicine to school.

1973 - Mark shares headache medicine with Principal out on the smoking dock.

2006 - Police called, Mark expelled from school for drug violations. Car searched for drugs and weapons.

Students get expelled and searched by police for having a few pain killers on them? I call bullsh*t.
Quote:
Scenario: Mary turns up pregnant.

1973 - 5 High School Boys leave town. Mary does her senior year at a special school for expectant mothers.

2006 - Middle School Counselor calls Planned Parenthood, who notifies the ACLU. Mary is driven to the next state over and gets an abortion without her parent's consent or knowledge. Mary given condoms and told to be more careful next time.

That didn't happen when I was in school either- in fact the girl who lived next door to me had a baby in her last year of high school.
Quote:
Scenario: Johnny takes leftover firecrackers from the 4th of July, puts them in a model airplane paint bottle, blows up a red ant bed .

1973 - Ants die.

2006 - BATF, Homeland Security, FBI called. Johnny charged with domestic terrorism, FBI investigates parents, siblings removed from home, computers confiscated, Johnny's Dad goes on a terror watch list and is never allowed to fly again.

Find me a news article of this actually happening.
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OiGirl



Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Location: Hoke-y-gun

PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 3:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zero tolerance for drug and weapons...
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Woland



Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 4:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is one of those rightwing nostalgia pieces of crap, how everything was better back when. It would easy, but excessively time consuming, to go through here and show the premises on both ends presented in each case here have been rigged to make the old days look good and modern times look bad. What rubbish!

bibbitybop - I've met you. You seemed smarter than this. I'm really disappointed.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 5:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
This is one of those rightwing nostalgia pieces of crap


I agree.

However, I once read a thing written by an ancient Greek complaining and whining about the younger generation that I thought was pretty good. Overall, the younger generation is crap and it doesn't matter at all WHICH younger generation we are talking about.

On the other hand, I do think it is crap to sentimentalize and romanticize and otherwise distort the past. It was a pile of crap, too. Can you possibly conceive of a time when the 1910 Fruitgum Company's 'music' was a hit? I don't think so, although it was better than 98% of the crap marketed today.

The Greeks were right. There was a Golden Age at some undefined point in the past and everything since has been downhill.

My only joy in life is to know that at least as bad as the crappy past was, it was better than the crappy present. Very Happy
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Pligganease



Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: The deep south...

PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 6:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, I think it was an joke made funny by it's exaggeration. It's probably a forwarded e-mail.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Actually, I think it was an joke made funny by it's exaggeration. It's probably a forwarded e-mail.


Nah.

It was one of those right wing "The past was a whole hell of a lot better than now things propagated by anally retentive cousins of Bill O'Reilly' things.
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cbclark4



Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan

PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The difference in the OPs scenarios, I think can be explained by simply understanding the difference between public education versus governement.

Public education is funded with public funds and directed on a local level by those who have vested interest in the local community.

Government education is funded with public funds and directed by big govenment who has interest in appeasing a very strong lobby.

Private schools seem to have less of these problems.

cbc
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Jeju Rocks



Joined: 23 Aug 2004

PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My highschool, back in the late 60s, early 70s had a shooting range in the basement.
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