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Mr. Friday
Joined: 18 Nov 2006
Location: for now - WI, USA
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 Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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How is power transmission via the electric grid (moving electrons) less efficient than burning diesel to ship gas to gas stations? (moving mass).
Also, the power grid already delivers to where you park (and 'fill up') an electric car - home.
With gas, all the end consumers need to burn more gas to get to and from the gas station. That is a BIG cost overall: small per consumer, but multiplied by the total number of consumers.
Don't forget the weight and cost (upfront and upkeep) savings of not having an internal combustion engine or a transmission. (and the already mentioned benefit of energy-return braking.)
Sorry, but the OP's position is just silly on the face of it.
Of course burning coal for power generation is a dirty process. There are however, economies of scale to be had by generating power at large facilities. |
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Mr. Friday
Joined: 18 Nov 2006
Location: for now - WI, USA
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| Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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My apologies -- mindmetoo didn't say what I thought they did and I responded to. No one here really did.
Brain burp, my bad. Continue on, nothing to see here.  |
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cbclark4
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan
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| Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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No your incorrect I did say what you were argueing against.
cbc |
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Mr. Friday
Joined: 18 Nov 2006
Location: for now - WI, USA
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| Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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Um, I guess I do have one point - Hydrogen is teh silly, compared to electricity, for cars at least.
Yes, a hydrogen fuel cell is a clean engine.
But you've got to make/produce the hydrogen in the first place - which adds *two* steps - H2 production and 'burning' in the fuel cell - and more efficiency loss.
Hydrogen is also favored by the gas industry - from a business perspective H2 may be produced differently than gas, but after that it's the same business of delivery to retail outlets (gas or H2 stations). 'Gas' companies could offer H2 in a similar way to their current business. Electricity cuts them out all together. |
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Hollywoodaction
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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| mnhnhyouh wrote: |
| Hollywoodaction wrote: |
By the way, corn oil uses solar energy to grow, which is no big deal. However, it takes energy to pick the corn (running the machines, employees commuting to work), produce the oil (again, machinery, employees's commute to work), and distribute it (truck run on energy). |
IIRC, the major producer of CO2 from biofuels is the production of nitrongenous fertilizer that is used on them.
| Xerxes wrote: |
| Hemp is "grass clippings" and it is dirt cheap to grow, and is basically a weed which requires no maintenance to grow to eliminate the weeds that choke the weed. Although I could see the human element in the fuel supply using it for non-energy purposes, as it were. Oh, well. |
It is also a heavy stripper of nitrogen from the soil. So you either need to plough in legumes between crops, or add fertilizer. If the latter, see above.
h |
No problem. Beans could be planted and used to produce fuel, either methanol or ethanol. Crop rotation isn't a new concept. |
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