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JZer
Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Location: South Korea
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 Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm not surprised you don't care, because it undermines your argument. However, I'm absolutely sure you'd be jumping up and down screaming it at the top of your lungs if Michigan had played the stronger schedule. But, they didn't. To be honest, I don't care if you don't care. You'll grasp at any straw to prove Michigan is better, and dismiss any evidence to the contrary. Fact of the matter, Florida played more good teams. End of story. (I see you've claimed that this is an opinion. Well, strength of schedule has an agreed upon definition in the college football world. According to that definition, Florida has a stronger schedule. Oh, and by the way, can you honestly say that strength of schedule wouldn't be your first argument if Michigan had, in fact, had the harder road? No, I didn't think so.) |
How do you want to prove that Flordia had a more difficult schedule? It is like the old adage goes, you can use statistics to prove anything true. It just depends how you cut the numbers.
The Big Ten had more wins against top 25 teams than the SEC. The Big Ten has three of the top six teams in the AP Top 25. Strength of schedule should probably be throw out of the arguement since one can find ways to argue that either team has a stronger schedule! |
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hogwonguy1979
Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Location: the racoon den
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| Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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| shifter2009 wrote: |
| It kinda all becomes irrelevant when we can all agree OSU is gonna sh*t stomp Florida come the title game. Urbab Myer is a great coach and Florida is a fiesty team but the Buckeyes are gonna punch them in the face. Hard. I am seeing a 2 touchdown win here. |
Yeah I think OSU is going to be 7-14 favorite going in |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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right now it is 7.5-8 point spread.
Pointspread.com |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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| JZer wrote: |
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| still waiting for non-um fans to come out and throw support behind the argument that the Wolverines should be in the national championship |
I'm not a Michigan fan and I support Michigan. |
so you're just a tool then huh?
(joking) |
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flakfizer
Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Location: scaling the Cliffs of Insanity with a frayed rope.
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| Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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| bucheon bum wrote: |
| still waiting for non-um fans to come out and throw support behind the argument that the Wolverines should be in the national championship. |
Are you talking about here on this thread or in general? |
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flakfizer
Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Location: scaling the Cliffs of Insanity with a frayed rope.
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Thunndarr
Joined: 30 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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They're all obviously insane. After all, they're saying the same thing I've said this entire thread. Florida is the conference champ, stronger schedule, beat better teams, didn't lose it's final game. They're clearly as crazy, illogical, and uninformed as I am. One of them even mentions that Florida beat a 10 win Arkansas team on a neutral field as a positive! Can you believe that? |
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flakfizer
Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Location: scaling the Cliffs of Insanity with a frayed rope.
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| Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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What I notice is that none of those reasons equals "UF is the second best team." Those reasons are all equal to "I really want to put UF in the number 2 position on my ballot." The only guy in there who actually claimed to believe UF was better than UM, was the guy who put them first, even ahead of OSU.  The rest are just rationalizing why they put a team in the number 2 spot despite not actually believing them to be the 2nd best team in the nation. They don't even pretend. They're not even saying boldly, "I put UF number 2 because I think they are the 2nd best team in the country-simple as that." |
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flakfizer
Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Location: scaling the Cliffs of Insanity with a frayed rope.
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| Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Thunndarr wrote: |
They're all obviously insane. After all, they're saying the same thing I've said this entire thread. |
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Thunndarr
Joined: 30 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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| flakfizer wrote: |
What I notice is that none of those reasons equals "UF is the second best team." Those reasons are all equal to "I really want to put UF in the number 2 position on my ballot." The only guy in there who actually claimed to believe UF was better than UM, was the guy who put them first, even ahead of OSU. The rest are just rationalizing why they put a team in the number 2 spot despite not actually believing them to be the 2nd best team in the nation. They don't even pretend. They're not even saying boldly, "I put UF number 2 because I think they are the 2nd best team in the country-simple as that." |
By the same token, they're 'not even saying boldly" that Michigan is the best team either. Or did you miss that part?
Edit: You've got some serious blinders on if you can read that article and claim that Michigan was the second best team in the country. If anything, that article is way more pro-Florida than Michigan.
For example:
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Tom Luicci, a Harris voter who bumped Florida up to second, said he made his assessment based on Florida's body of work -- not one game.
"Michigan has quality wins over Wisconsin, which played no one, and Notre Dame, which won the Commander's-in-Chief trophy (a reference to wins over the service academies) which I don't consider a major coup."
As for Florida, Luicci noted its weak nonconference schedule "but that doesn't matter when you play every good team in the SEC and have quality road wins, too."
Florida played 10 bowl teams and beat nine, including road wins against Tennessee and Florida State, neutral site wins against Georgia and Arkansas and home victories against LSU and Alabama. The Gators lone loss? At Auburn, 27-17.
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It was such a big deal for Jim Walden, a former Washington State head coach, that he picked Florida No. 1 in the Harris poll, calling Florida's schedule "murderous."
"In my heart of hearts, I believe that neither Ohio State or Michigan could get through Florida's schedule with only one loss." |
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"Michigan had its shot," said Harris voter Joe Biddle of The Tennessean. "If you replayed that game it would be nothing more than a Big Ten championship -- and I don't think you get mulligans in college football.
"If there's a viable alternative, I stay away from a rematch and I think Florida gives them a viable alternative." |
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AP poll voter Michael Vega of The Boston Globe said he wasn't against a rematch but found it hard to justify one this time.
"I had to reconcile a fundamental problem with giving Michigan a chance to win the national championship when it didn't even win a conference championship," he said. |
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AP voter Jon Wilner of the San Jose Mercury News said a rematch was appealing, but Florida deserves a title shot based on strength of schedule.
"Beating Arkansas, a 10-win team on a neutral field in December gave Florida that extra push," said Wilner. |
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The last rematch in the national title games was in 1996, when Florida beat Florida State for the national title after losing to the Seminoles in the final game of the regular season.
South Carolina's Steve Spurrier, who coached the Gators to the '96 national championship, moved Florida past Michigan in the coaches' poll.
His reasoning?
"Heck, I'm a Gator," he said. "I went there. So I had a lot of reason to vote for them right there. It just appeared they're 12-1, the other team is 11-1, I guess that's about it." |
And, finally, ONE guy from the article says Michigan is better.
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And then there were those who stuck with Michigan.
"I kept Michigan second even after they lost to Ohio State, and felt nothing has changed for me since that loss for Florida to jump over them," said coaches' poll voter Brian Kelly, the former Central Michigan coach who accepted Cincinnati's job Sunday.
David Glazier, Detroit Lions senior vice president who votes in the Harris poll, said he had problems with the "politicking that people in the media did, trying to steer people away from a rematch.
He also had the novel idea of voting for the better team.
"Did I want to see a rematch? No," he said. "But my job was to vote for the top 25 teams, not who should play who, and after watching as much college football as anybody, I believed Michigan was the second-best team." |
As for the blue section, that's what we call editorializing. Is there anywhere in the article where it says the other coaches don't think Florida is the better team? |
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JZer
Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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| What I notice is that none of those reasons equals "UF is the second best team." Those reasons are all equal to "I really want to put UF in the number 2 position on my ballot." The only guy in there who actually claimed to believe UF was better than UM, was the guy who put them first, even ahead of OSU. The rest are just rationalizing why they put a team in the number 2 spot despite not actually believing them to be the 2nd best team in the nation. They don't even pretend. They're not even saying boldly, "I put UF number 2 because I think they are the 2nd best team in the country-simple as that." |
Yeah, I would say that there are definitly people who voted the way they did to avoid a rematch. Voting that way is problamatic since it allows a team the chance to win a championship just because some people did not want to see a rematch. What if OSU has a bad game and loses? Furthermore it is only one game, meaning anyone could win. Another example of how the BCS is a disastor! |
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Thunndarr
Joined: 30 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Incidentally, what would the status quo have been if the voters had decided to keep the rankings unchanged from two weeks prior to Michigan's final game? Just out of curiosity, since some of you seem to think that rankings from two weeks ago are unalterable and nothing, not even recent game results, can or should be done to alter pollsters' opinions. |
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mortin21
Joined: 26 Sep 2006
Location: Seoul, Korea
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| Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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| I have held back from posting on this because I absolutely despise Florida and am actually a big Michigan fan (can't stand Ohio St either). Coming from UGA, we have lost to UF as long as I can remember and even lost when we were td plus favorites in the spread in our good seasons. It killed me, there was even a bar named Gator-Haters in Athens. Either way I do have to back UF on this one, (damn that felt weird). Losing a game in the beginning of the season gives a team a chance to see what they did wrong and change everything around. Arkansas is a good example of this. Whereas losing at the end of the season is usually a better indicator of how a team will do in its bowl game. Confident teams (in my experience) tend to go in and win bigger games. However, there are tons of exceptions and I am not going to go through and cite all the stats or specifics. On the otherhand, having a rematch (like the UF-FSU rematch in '97 or whenever it was when FSU won the final game of the year and lost the championship) shows that on any given day any team could win. If a rematch were to take place and OSU won, simple they're better than Um; however if UM won, what does this mean? Should we play it out and do best out of 3? I think the season has taken its course and UF has earned its right, even if they do get destroyed. But the argument about how 2 teams play Vandy? Absolute rubbish. Teams will always play other teams harder if there is reason, i.e. inner conference play (I didn't say better, just harder) or rivalry. But despite this, bc UM picked up better on Vandy's style of play than UF did does not mean that UF will necessarily be weaker against OSU. Using a logical argument to argue football is pointless. Again anything can happen once those players get on the field. |
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huck
Joined: 19 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 7:10 am Post subject: |
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I keep reading that some people think that not having a conference championship game hurt Michigan.....but if they did have two separate divisions in the Big Ten, then I'm sure that Michigan and Ohio St. would be in the same one, due to tradition, and needing to play each other every year.
If there was a conference championship game, then Michigan wouldn't even have played in it....and if OSU had somehow lost to the other division's team, Michigan would've been out of the BCS - probably.
That being said, I still think Michigan got hosed, and Florida would've been, if they weren't chosen...and Boise State got screwed...
and Rutgers dropping all the way down to the Texas Bowl?? tsk, tsk.. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:44 am Post subject: |
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| huck wrote: |
Ibut if they did have two separate divisions in the Big Ten, then I'm sure that Michigan and Ohio St. would be in the same one, due to tradition, and needing to play each other every year.
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Not necessarily. For instance Tenessee and Alabama are in seperate divisions in the SEC but play each other every year. |
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