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| YES or NO |
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| NO |
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| Total Votes : 28 |
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itaewonguy
Joined: 25 Mar 2003
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 Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2003 5:25 am Post subject: Should DAVES have a blacklist? |
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I know this is business..
but still, being a portal for EVIL WONJUNGNIMS and terrible SCHOOLS..
people should be warned.. I know there are black lists all over the net.
but a black list on this board might help many teacher... |
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Skarp
Joined: 22 Aug 2003
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2003 5:52 am Post subject: |
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There may be issues about libel/slander.
If it is possible to collate information in a more easily readible form then that would help people a lot.
A school profile list would be nice. Grades from current or former teachers on areas such as curriculum, management, facilities, resources, atmoshere. A salary range and grade for housing would also be nice.
Very hard to make this kind of thing objective so maybe it would be a futile exercise.
Skarp |
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Stunted Wookie
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Sound Studio
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2003 6:18 am Post subject: libel? |
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Libel could only apply to a false statment as I understand it, a simple disclaimer would do to protect himself....
But that is a pipe dream, this site is a success from the advertising dollars. Plus people who still use this forum help fuel it. There could never be anything on here to cause a problem for ones source of income.
Go to www.alexa.com and type in eslcafe.com @ see the reviews. This site is no longer highly respected..it was just the first. Korean schools/ recruiters who place ads here just don't know that yet. |
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yoda
Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Location: Incheon, South Korea
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2003 7:36 am Post subject: |
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| No. Most professional sites won't have a blacklist for the very threat of libel. You have to keep in mind that if you say something nasty about someone publicly (or let it reside at your website) you may be asked to prove it, which is not always easy to do EVEN if it's true). |
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mishlert
Joined: 13 Mar 2003
Location: On the 3rd rock from the sun
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Gord
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2003 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Dave won't set up a blacklist because that would impact upon the money he makes from schools/recruiters paying to advertise. Simple economics. |
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mack the knife
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: standing right behind you...
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2003 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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| There already is an informal blacklist on this site. Just do a search for the words "stay away from..." or "beware of..." This site does a much better job of approaching the truth of things than the blacklist sites, because you often get both sides of the coin. |
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Stunted Wookie
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Sound Studio
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2003 8:23 pm Post subject: site |
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The veracity review site posts both positive and neg. statements about schools, recruiters.
Ones opinion cannot be labelled as libel. Look at those consumer report magazines and web sites...they give their opinion based on their own tests. No lawsuits there I suspect.
I webmaster for a professional site. A community site. Each teacher posting a school review does so knowning the need to post a truthful account based on their exerience.
As the legal guys told me; a disclaimer is what is needed..not much more.
"In my opinion so and so school is poor..because... "
Libel? not a chance. |
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William Beckerson
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2003 8:54 am Post subject: |
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| Gord wrote: |
| Dave won't set up a blacklist because that would impact upon the money he makes from schools/recruiters paying to advertise. Simple economics. |
That's Thugganomics my homee. |
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camel96
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2003 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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| There was a thread on Koreanesl - perhaps last year where a bunch of guys were complaining because they'd posted some warnings here about some schools that advertise on Daves. Anyhow to cut a long story short the posts had been pulled very, very quickly. One of them had complained directly to Dave Sperling and they'd pasted his reply on Koreanesl. Basically if I remember correctly he'd written something along the lines of lawsuits and losing advertisers etc. But he had told them to post their warnings on the job information journal board because advertisers don't check that board so much. I may not have it 100% but this was basically the gist of it. If someone was motivated they could possibly do a search on Kesl and find the posts. Not how I want to spend a Sat afternoon though. |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2003 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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We do sort of have a blacklist, but we don't call it that. People often come here to ask advice about a specific school that they are thinking of signing with, and others who have bad experiences tell their stories here also.
I just tried our search engine using these keywords : < warning stay away from this school > and narrowed the search to only within this particular forum.
It's not a blacklist as such, I know, not in the sense of an actual LIST of schools to avoid ... and it's not the only reason people come here either. But it could be used in much the same way.
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/search.php?mode=results
| Quote: |
| There was a thread on Koreanesl - perhaps last year where a bunch of guys were complaining because they'd posted some warnings here about some schools that advertise on Daves. Anyhow to cut a long story short the posts had been pulled very, very quickly. One of them had complained directly to Dave Sperling and they'd pasted his reply on Koreanesl. Basically if I remember correctly he'd written something along the lines of lawsuits and losing advertisers etc. |
This would have been on the old board format that was being moderated by some faceless person in California last year.
To my knowledge, Mr Sperling has not given the present group of peer moderators any instrructions regarding posts that offer complaints about schools that advertise here. The mods are not interested in researching who advertises and who does not, and I for one would feel that this sort of censorship would make the site as a whole incredibly less useful than it is now.
People are free here to express their opinions about schools, and others are free to express contrary opinions, and this is what we like to see. |
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TECO
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2003 8:25 am Post subject: |
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Yes, there should be a black list.
But Dave's ESL Cafe relys on these schools for his income.
So, unfortunately, I don't think we'll be seeing a black list anytime soon. |
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Gord
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2003 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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| The Bobster wrote: |
| To my knowledge, Mr Sperling has not given the present group of peer moderators any instrructions regarding posts that offer complaints about schools that advertise here. The mods are not interested in researching who advertises and who does not, and I for one would feel that this sort of censorship would make the site as a whole incredibly less useful than it is now. |
That's because they just get deleted when the school/recruiter bring the negative posts to his attention.
There will be no speedbumps on the moneytrain. |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2003 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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That's because they just get deleted when the school/recruiter bring the negative posts to his attention.
There will be no speedbumps on the moneytrain. |
You're wildly speculating, and passing it off as fact.
However, it could be true. It's Sperling's site and he doesn't have to inform the moderators or the users if he gets it into his head to delete something. It's his board, after all.
My only statement here was about what the mods do and don't do. This is something I know about and I try not to speculate about things that are unknown to me unless I label it as such. (Hint, hint.)
If you're curious, why not start a thread called "Blacklist"? You could clipboard some of the things in that have already been posted, complaint-wise, and encourage other people to add to it. If people show enough interest, one of the mods might make it a 'sticky.' Then you can cross-reference the complaints against any advertisers you know about here - as said above, you'll have to do this, gord, cuz the idea of it bores me, quite frankly.
As waterbaby pointed out, the effort is sort of redundant when a couple of our regular posters have started their own website expressly for this purpose and no other ... but if you are interested in moving beyond the realm of specualtion, go ahead and try it as an experiment. |
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Gord
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2003 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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| The Bobster wrote: |
| You're wildly speculating, and passing it off as fact. |
No, I've seen it. He doesn't even attempt to investigate whether the complaining post is true or not. If the paying school/recruiter complains, the complaining post is deleted.
He does it quite quickly, I might add. |
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