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cbclark4
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan
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 Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
| cbclark4 wrote: |
| ddeubel wrote: |
I was so angry after watching the press conference in England this morning. Damn, he is still being the bully and the bragaddaccio and DOES NOT at all see the illogic of his policies. It is all just so simple for him -- and also him saying there is an "unprecedented threat to civilization" . Wow. We got a end gamer and a person dangerous to the whole world.
He states loudly the same old logic. We can't admit defeat, pull out. We will prevail. We are tracking down evil. There is a boogie man under every rock.......also he understands the pain of those who are sacrificing. I say he does not , at all.
This press conference for me -- confirmed that we can see little in the way of real withdrawl or new policy until he goes in a few years. Tweaking yes, but that will be all. He wants to go out believing he did the noble thing and is the prince of the forces of moderation. Moderation , go figure?
DD |
Wow you got all that from a fake photo.
Why so angry with a world leader that is trying to protect us from terror?
Terrorism is a threat whether one thinks so or not.
Would we all be better off with Osama Bin Laden in power?
cbc |
I suspect that RSRefugee feels that Bush has done everything to make us more vulnerable to 'terror' and more likely to be targetted by it. Even US intelligence has stated this...and certainly British intelligence believed this before the Iraq war...but only recently spoke up about it.  |
I thought they were all too busy in Iraq withthe insurgenct?
cbc |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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| cbclark4 wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| cbclark4 wrote: |
| ddeubel wrote: |
I was so angry after watching the press conference in England this morning. Damn, he is still being the bully and the bragaddaccio and DOES NOT at all see the illogic of his policies. It is all just so simple for him -- and also him saying there is an "unprecedented threat to civilization" . Wow. We got a end gamer and a person dangerous to the whole world.
He states loudly the same old logic. We can't admit defeat, pull out. We will prevail. We are tracking down evil. There is a boogie man under every rock.......also he understands the pain of those who are sacrificing. I say he does not , at all.
This press conference for me -- confirmed that we can see little in the way of real withdrawl or new policy until he goes in a few years. Tweaking yes, but that will be all. He wants to go out believing he did the noble thing and is the prince of the forces of moderation. Moderation , go figure?
DD |
Wow you got all that from a fake photo.
Why so angry with a world leader that is trying to protect us from terror?
Terrorism is a threat whether one thinks so or not.
Would we all be better off with Osama Bin Laden in power?
cbc |
I suspect that RSRefugee feels that Bush has done everything to make us more vulnerable to 'terror' and more likely to be targetted by it. Even US intelligence has stated this...and certainly British intelligence believed this before the Iraq war...but only recently spoke up about it. |
I thought they were all too busy in Iraq withthe insurgenct?
cbc |
I have seen very mild once quite pro-American Arabs become very angry as a result of this war. Don't underestimate the resentment and hostility it has ignited all around the muslim world. This war has been one of the best recruiting advertisements in a long time for radical Islamic organisations - some of which are based in (and seeking to wreak havoc in) Western countries.
And what do you think will happen to all those young foreign insurgents with a newly acquired taste for Jihadi when the fun dries up in Iraq? They'll be finding more mischief elsewhere...Think of the jihadists who beat the old superpower the Soviet Union and sent them packing from Afghanistan. They came out of that conflict feeling extremely triumphant and empowered. Did they all suddenly pack their bags and go home? Many of them found new causes. |
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Pligganease
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: The deep south...
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| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
| I have seen very mild once quite pro-American Arabs become very angry as a result of this war. |
"Seen" or "heard about?" I have heard about that but never seen it. I'd be willing to bet that it's the same for you, although you will undoubtedly contest that assumption. Mostly, I see people that already hated the U.S. (You know, they hate us for our freedom) still hating the U.S. This is with or without the war.
I highly doubt that there were soooooo many pro-American Arabs that are now not, just because of Iraq. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Pligganease wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| I have seen very mild once quite pro-American Arabs become very angry as a result of this war. |
"Seen" or "heard about?" I have heard about that but never seen it. I'd be willing to bet that it's the same for you, although you will undoubtedly contest that assumption. Mostly, I see people that already hated the U.S. (You know, they hate us for our freedom) still hating the U.S. This is with or without the war.
I highly doubt that there were soooooo many pro-American Arabs that are now not, just because of Iraq. |
I socialise regularly with Arabs...believe it or not. I also have quite a few long standing friendships with some...and I have seen their attitudes change quite markedly over the last few years. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
| Pligganease wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| I have seen very mild once quite pro-American Arabs become very angry as a result of this war. |
"Seen" or "heard about?" I have heard about that but never seen it. I'd be willing to bet that it's the same for you, although you will undoubtedly contest that assumption. Mostly, I see people that already hated the U.S. (You know, they hate us for our freedom) still hating the U.S. This is with or without the war.
I highly doubt that there were soooooo many pro-American Arabs that are now not, just because of Iraq. |
I socialise regularly with Arabs...believe it or not. I also have quite a few long standing friendships with some...and I have seen their attitudes change quite markedly over the last few years. |
Like finds like.
Seeing as you are so anti-American I highly doubt you know many pro-american Arabs.
And a handful of personal relationships does not a reputable socialogical study make... |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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| twg wrote: |
| wannago wrote: |
| When the truth can't justify their loopiness, manipulate and lie. |
Hows that search for the WMDs going in Iraq? I say the pro gay marriage people are hiding them to make the right look like dumb hicks who'll buy anything their "side" is telling them. |
It has been pointed out already that they have been moved to Syria.
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2005/3/2/230625.shtml
Georges Sada who was the number 2 in Saddam's air forces has also verified this. So who am I going to believe? Some like this guy who was in a position to know, or some people on a message board who weren't?
Hard choice.
Last edited by TheUrbanMyth on Mon Dec 11, 2006 4:21 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| Pligganease wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| I have seen very mild once quite pro-American Arabs become very angry as a result of this war. |
"Seen" or "heard about?" I have heard about that but never seen it. I'd be willing to bet that it's the same for you, although you will undoubtedly contest that assumption. Mostly, I see people that already hated the U.S. (You know, they hate us for our freedom) still hating the U.S. This is with or without the war.
I highly doubt that there were soooooo many pro-American Arabs that are now not, just because of Iraq. |
I socialise regularly with Arabs...believe it or not. I also have quite a few long standing friendships with some...and I have seen their attitudes change quite markedly over the last few years. |
Like finds like.
Seeing as you are so anti-American I highly doubt you know many pro-american Arabs. |
I'm curious to know what anti-Americanism actually entails. I suspect it really means one is not a devoted arselicking worshipper of the utterly incompetent Bush administration and their lackeys (or is it just the one lackey these days?) across the Atlantic.
And I don't generally base my friendships on shared political perspectives. One can have other shared interests you know! There really is life outside the CE forum my friend. 
| Quote: |
| And a handful of personal relationships does not a reputable socialogical study make.... |
This is true (although I'd say it was at least a couple of handfuls), but it occurs to me that if my intelligent and fairminded friends have gone through a political metamorphisis, then God know what effect events are having on the minds of young impressionable alienated muslim males (i.e the ones recruited as Jihadi cannon fodder). From what I've read, it's having an enormous impact. |
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wannago
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
I socialise regularly with Arabs...believe it or not. I also have quite a few long standing friendships with some... |
 No shit????
I find that one shocking...  |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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| wannago wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
I socialise regularly with Arabs...believe it or not. I also have quite a few long standing friendships with some... |
No *beep*????
I find that one shocking... |
Yeah...I meet them down the mosque every Friday afternoon. We have tea and scones and then we burn a few effigies of Bush and Blair, sing death to America, dance to a few Lionel Richie hits and discuss the latest methods for blowing up public transport. It's really quite fun, I'll invite you some time. |
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Wangja
Joined: 17 May 2004
Location: Seoul, Yongsan
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| Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Pligganease wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| I have seen very mild once quite pro-American Arabs become very angry as a result of this war. |
"Seen" or "heard about?" I have heard about that but never seen it. I'd be willing to bet that it's the same for you, although you will undoubtedly contest that assumption. Mostly, I see people that already hated the U.S. (You know, they hate us for our freedom) still hating the U.S. This is with or without the war.
I highly doubt that there were soooooo many pro-American Arabs that are now not, just because of Iraq. |
I lived and worked in the Arab middle east (SA, Kuwait and Eqypt) for around 9 years and for most of my stay, I seldom encountered anti-Americanism. That a US president could squander so much of that support so fast still amazes me. |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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| That a US president could squander so much of that support so fast still amazes me |
Ganja, you get it and that is the greatest misfortune of the whole post 9/11 misadventure.
Good article on Muslim stereotypes at http://polisci.lsa.umich.edu/documents/tesslerISPArticle.pdf
With stats showing exactly that - that Muslims don't by large numbers, view America as "evil" and they certainly don't think American people are horrid, wrong and whatever adjective. Of course the converse is true though more and more, this light is dimming.
I would also note that Kristof, though usually a strict conservative, rally around the chief type, has also come on board. His weekend column, Muslim Stereotypes, precisely points out the administrations coniving and "evil" ways. I say evil because it is always so, to use a group of people for warmongering , profiteering ends....
http://forums.allaboutjazz.com/showthread.php?p=260156
he writes,
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After I wrote recently about reform elements in Islam, I received a long note from a 24-year-old Chicagoan, Paul Williams, who ventured what many people feel: �I went to school in Macalester College and the whole time there I wrote paper after paper defending Islam,� he told me. Now, he says, after reading the Koran cover to cover and living in Turkey, he has lapsed into political incorrectness: �The more I�m here the more I�m beginning to think that there�s just something wrong with Islam.�
That�s a common view, shaped partly by the way we in the news business focus on violence in the Islamic world. So let me step up and say that I find the common American stereotypes of Islam profoundly warped. |
This could well be addressed to a few on this board, especially one person who thinks because they've lived in Turkey, they can write all Muslims off..... |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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| ddeubel wrote: |
| ...you get it. |
These three words capture many of my criticisms of the left. Implicit in this message is that there is an "it" to get -- a singular truth, or a master-interpretation of the world. In a word, "objective reality." You mostly learned it from Marx, who claimed to have discovered it, and whose brilliance I do not deny -- even though others have claimed it exists as well, namely Leopold von Ranke.
Wrapped up in these three words are all the intolerance and suppression of dissenting views that the left so righteously claims to combat. Because, implicitly, the others "do not get it." And you call those of us who "do not get it" racist, mindless, patriotic drones -- among other negative descriptors, just because we reject bitter, antiEstablishment-style, "rage-against-the-machine," "stand up to the Man" dissent.
We in the center and on the right must have drunk the kool aid, then. But you on the left, on the other hand, with our reliance on fabricated pictures and heaps of non-evidentiary-based, overstated assertions to make your case notwithstanding, "get it."
But if you are indeed one who sincerely wants a more democratic world, a tolerant world, I strongly suggest that you learn to see validity in and even accept points of view that are not your own. Learn to represent honestly without misrepresenting. Do not approach peoples, cultures, or governments with which you disagree with such an intransigent, hostile or judgmental attitude -- and if that applies to the Arab Middle East, it also applies to the United States government.
In a word, then, learn to coexist.
So there is no "it" out there. And, unfortunately, as far as I can tell, only the Zen Buddhists are comfortable with this, the so-called postmodernists' arrogant double-talk notwithstanding. |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:24 am Post subject: |
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Oh please Gopher,,,,,,get "off" it.
There is no secret code and we don't meet in the middle of the night to trade revolutionary treatises.
It simply refers to "the heart of the matter". Get a grip.
Usually as an amateur doctor I prescribe more fibre. But in this case much less.......
DD |
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cbclark4
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:32 am Post subject: |
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The "it" is also prevalent in the OP.
A doctored photo and more lies.
cbc |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:09 am Post subject: |
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LOL, Ddeubel. And you still come back with this...
| ddeubel wrote: |
| It simply refers to "the heart of the matter". |
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