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snowy32
Joined: 03 Dec 2005
Location: NZ
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 Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 5:07 am Post subject: discipline query |
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I have a teeny tiny gripe and I'm looking for some tips and tricks to deal with this situation. This isn't a big deal but I'm just posting to get a little help.
Before we begin, I work at a hagwon, this is an important point.
I have one kid who is a bit of a devil. I tell her to do something and she won't listen, she won't do what she's told. She's very disrespectful etcetc Her mother called and complained that I was being to tough on her (I told her to write lines and she refused) so my boss told me to be friendly with her WTF?? how will that help? Well, I know it won't but it'll keep the money coming in. So, I'm looking for some discipline techniques that might be effective but that won't get more phone calls from the mum.
BTW- I realise this might sound a little whiny, but like I said I'm not posting to complain, I'm just looking for a few ideas. |
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oneofthesarahs
Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Location: Sacheon City
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| Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 5:43 am Post subject: |
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| Is the problem that she is sitting next to her friends? I find that a change in seating arrangement helps abate lots of disciplinary problems. |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Keep on her case until mommy pulls her out. Routinely kicking her out of the classroom would probably be the fastest way to do it. F the boss - after a response like he gave you he deserves it. If they want to fire you then you can get a real job. If they don't, the bloody boss will try a bit harder to encourage the kids to behave and respect you. Either way it's a win-win situation. If you do allow yourself to be treated like a doormat then just collect your paycheque and don't whine about it. |
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ilovebdt
Joined: 03 Jun 2005
Location: Nr Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 4:04 pm Post subject: Re: discipline query |
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| snowy32 wrote: |
I have a teeny tiny gripe and I'm looking for some tips and tricks to deal with this situation. This isn't a big deal but I'm just posting to get a little help.
Before we begin, I work at a hagwon, this is an important point.
I have one kid who is a bit of a devil. I tell her to do something and she won't listen, she won't do what she's told. She's very disrespectful etcetc Her mother called and complained that I was being to tough on her (I told her to write lines and she refused) so my boss told me to be friendly with her WTF?? how will that help? Well, I know it won't but it'll keep the money coming in. So, I'm looking for some discipline techniques that might be effective but that won't get more phone calls from the mum.
BTW- I realise this might sound a little whiny, but like I said I'm not posting to complain, I'm just looking for a few ideas. |
Seeing as she likes attention so much have you thought about making her your helper. Get her to handout, papers, pens etc. Being nice to her is not the way to go.
Another alternative is to have her stand right at the front of the class all lesson. I know it is humiliating, but it'll probably make her think twice.
ilovebdt |
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mnhnhyouh
Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Location: The Middle Kingdom
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| Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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It really depends on the student. One strategy that has worked well form me in the past has been a carrot and stick approach with full disclosure.
Let the student know that you are having a problem with their behavior. let them know that you are going to be watching them. Then look for the first bit of good behavior, and, off to the side, praise them for it. Then let then look for the first bit of bad behavior, and come down on them publically.
The next bit of good behavior should be a public recognition.
If they do a good lesson, talk to them after the class, and let them know they did very well, then see if you can give them some class helper reward, but this must be seen by the other kids as being the other side of the coin, not special treatment for being a bad kid.
I think it easy to teach good kids, and one measure of being a good teacher is to teach the difficult ones.
h |
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khyber
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Compunction Junction
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| Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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1) An attention issue (start using more subtle reprimands or something that isn't too distracting and focuses too much attention on her). I would specifically STOP telling HER to do something. Instead, start giving the kids homework (or tell them: what you don't finish in class is homework). If she continues to refuse to do the work you want her to do, eventually it will become her problem ...her problem with her mother.
2) A seeting arrangement (isolate her or at LEAST keep her away from her friends)
3)mnhn had great ideas too
4) Don't giver her lines anymore. Don't put yourself into any kind of power struggle (which is EXACTLY what this sounds like). Don't be confrontational in how you deal with her. Give her options...and not options like: Do this or leave. This won't GUARUNTEE to work, but there is no doubt to me that this is a power struggle.
How does she act around other teachers? the principal? What is her general attitude towards learning english?
every student is different |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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Oneofthesarahs, Ilovebtd, mnhnhyouh, and khyber, those would all be wonderful ideas at a real school. The OP works at a 'school' where, when discussing concerns about a student's severe problem behaviour, the boss says 'be friendly with her'.
What the hell is the point in carrying on from there? Sometimes in education people do need to be taught a lesson, and in this case, it's the boss. |
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ilovebdt
Joined: 03 Jun 2005
Location: Nr Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
Oneofthesarahs, Ilovebtd, mnhnhyouh, and khyber, those would all be wonderful ideas at a real school. The OP works at a 'school' where, when discussing concerns about a student's severe problem behaviour, the boss says 'be friendly with her'.
What the hell is the point in carrying on from there? Sometimes in education people do need to be taught a lesson, and in this case, it's the boss. |
I have taught at both a hagwon and a public school and I found having the child stand up in class to be effective.
I agree that the boss needs to show the students that the foreign teacher is to be respected just as much as the Korean teachers.
ilovebdt |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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| ilovebdt wrote: |
| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
Oneofthesarahs, Ilovebtd, mnhnhyouh, and khyber, those would all be wonderful ideas at a real school. The OP works at a 'school' where, when discussing concerns about a student's severe problem behaviour, the boss says 'be friendly with her'.
What the hell is the point in carrying on from there? Sometimes in education people do need to be taught a lesson, and in this case, it's the boss. |
I have taught at both a hagwon and a public school and I found having the child stand up in class to be effective.
I agree that the boss needs to show the students that the foreign teacher is to be respected just as much as the Korean teachers.
ilovebdt |
At some hogwans the Korean teachers aren't respected, either. And what's the OP supposed to do when the boss says 'holy shit, did you make little Minji stand up at the front for the last 10 minutes of the lesson?! Don't every do that or anything that will make her mother complain again!' |
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khyber
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Compunction Junction
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| Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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I agree ybs, but I am only working on the info provided.
why not at LEAST give the student a chance with some different technique? I'm all for abandoning jerks at hagwons after trying different methods. |
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snowy32
Joined: 03 Dec 2005
Location: NZ
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| Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the tips so far guys, keep them coming!! I'm open to any suggestions.
| Quote: |
| 4) Don't giver her lines anymore. Don't put yourself into any kind of power struggle (which is EXACTLY what this sounds like). Don't be confrontational in how you deal with her. Give her options...and not options like: Do this or leave. This won't GUARUNTEE to work, but there is no doubt to me that this is a power struggle |
If I tell her to "do it or leave" then she will have to leave and my boss won't do anything about it. For example, on the first day of all this crap it was her turn to work with the only boy in the class (we work on a rotation system) well she sneered and started yabbering in Korean and she simply refused. I then told her to come with me and we were going to Mr Kim's (the boss) office, again she refused. So, I had to get Mr Kim to come into the class to get her out. He talked to her and he then came in and told me that she didn't want to sit beside the boy so I then had to make another girl do it even though it wasn't her turn.
I then told her that if she isn't going to complete the lines then she cannot join in the class. Once she finishes it I don't care if she joins in or not.
Let me explain a bit about her: she's the popular girl in the class, she's very smart, she's about 12 or 13years old, she is very pretty (I think this effects the princess attitude she has), she's very selfish (my boss admitted this).
If I send her out of my class Mr Kim will just have a little chat with her and then send her back in. He is basically telling her that if she doesn't do what she's told by her teacher then she will be praised.
I think it's what my boss is asking me to do that has turned her into the nasty little girl in the first place. She's clearly used to getting her own way. |
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snowy32
Joined: 03 Dec 2005
Location: NZ
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| Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Keep on her case until mommy pulls her out. |
I would love for her to leave but I sort of feel that I would be failing as a teacher if I wasn't able to manage this correctly. I don't want kids to start leaving the hagwon, we are a stable hagwon but I just don't want to see a kid because it would reflect badly on me....wouldn't it? I'm not sure how to feel about that. |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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| snowy32 wrote: |
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| Keep on her case until mommy pulls her out. |
I would love for her to leave but I sort of feel that I would be failing as a teacher if I wasn't able to manage this correctly. I don't want kids to start leaving the hagwon, we are a stable hagwon but I just don't want to see a kid because it would reflect badly on me....wouldn't it? I'm not sure how to feel about that. |
You're new and you have no idea what absolute BS this is. At public school I have two grade one middle school classes of 30 and 32 girls that age and that kind of behaviour simply doesn't happen. Some days they're quiet and some days they're a bit chatty, and some days I have to waste the first minute of a lesson getting them all at their desks with their textbooks ready, but outright disrespect and defiance like that simply does not happen to me. I have very little keeping them under control all by myself.
Here's what would happen if your brat acted up in my class:
'You - sit down, you're staying behind during break and writing out _________________________________ twenty times'.
'Teachuh no'.
'Do you want to go see your homeroom teacher? No? Good, then start writing. Now it's 30'.
If she was still defiant or used banmal to address me she would be going to see her homeroom teacher asap and knowing who the grade 1 homeroom teachers are I can assure you that sort of behaviour would never recur. Your boss has likely been feeding little Moon-jay-ah's mother all manner of lies and now you risk bursting his bubble. Cause him to lose a customer and I can assure you that he will take you more seriously the next time you have a problem with a kid. You are not failing if using reasonable disciplinary methods causes attendence to drop. |
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snowy32
Joined: 03 Dec 2005
Location: NZ
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| Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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| I have to face the little devil tommorow, so....any more advice? |
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