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happeningthang
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
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 Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Bibbitybop wrote: |
Happeningthing:
I concur with Scotticus. The police did NOT do their job. Metro Politician called the police for help, not the drunk ajossi, yet they treated the situation like the ajossi called them and pretty much ignored everything Metro Politician had to say. They told him he shouldn't call the police, even when he is being harassed, followed, shouted racially at and having hands put on him.
To answer your main question, it's racist because it wouldn't have happened like this if Metro Politician was a Korean. This is case about police inefficiency. The racist elements are secondary, but escalate the inappropriateness of the situation. Read Metro Politician's second post on his site, I linked it above. He answers some of the questions I think you are raising.
Furthermore, like I said, this is one incident in MANY involving police discrimination of foreigners. This is just a great example to use as evidence since Metro Politician has video, audio and witnesses along with his credibility. |
Yeah, fair enough Bibbity.
I thought the cops were telling Metro not to call the police, because it overcomplicates a relatively minor annoyance, and then he wouldn't be open to false accusations. I imagine the cops have a good idea of what the truth of the situation is, but they are hamstrung by their obligations.
Still, I think your case would be better made with details of these many different examples of discrimination instead of relying on this one alone. It would be more convincing to someone like myself who has managed to spend a few years in Korea, and never once be part of something like this. |
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RACETRAITOR
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Bibbitybop wrote: |
Someone posted recently about why foreigners encounter racism with the police, but didn't give them any information. This is an example of what NOT to send to the police. You need specifics about their misconduct. |
I think it was a mistake to link his site. He could easily be charged with libel for telling the story. The truth isn't a defence against libel in this country. |
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Bibbitybop
Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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| RACETRAITOR wrote: |
| Bibbitybop wrote: |
Someone posted recently about why foreigners encounter racism with the police, but didn't give them any information. This is an example of what NOT to send to the police. You need specifics about their misconduct. |
I think it was a mistake to link his site. He could easily be charged with libel for telling the story. The truth isn't a defence against libel in this country. |
Well, he didn't drop any names or reveal the ajossi's identity. I think it is a matter of time that his public blog is pointed out. Everyone should know about the ordeal.
I notice on the snitchboard that someone has a great post from the drunk ajossi's perspective. |
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RACETRAITOR
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Bibbitybop wrote: |
| RACETRAITOR wrote: |
| Bibbitybop wrote: |
Someone posted recently about why foreigners encounter racism with the police, but didn't give them any information. This is an example of what NOT to send to the police. You need specifics about their misconduct. |
I think it was a mistake to link his site. He could easily be charged with libel for telling the story. The truth isn't a defence against libel in this country. |
Well, he didn't drop any names or reveal the ajossi's identity. I think it is a matter of time that his public blog is pointed out. Everyone should know about the ordeal.
I notice on the snitchboard that someone has a great post from the drunk ajossi's perspective. |
Considering how things have gone so far, I wouldn't be surprised if he could be charged for libel with this, even though he doesn't mention the drunk old man's name. |
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stevieg4ever
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Location: London, England
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| Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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But you are not black are you? therefore you wouldnt be subject to the same kind of verbal onslaught that Metropolitician received by the ajossi.
and just because it has never happened to you doesnt mean that:
a) it doesnt happen to other people
b) it couldnt happen [to you] in the future
| happeningthang wrote: |
| It would be more convincing to someone like myself who has managed to spend a few years in Korea, and never once be part of something like this. |
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happeningthang
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Scotticus wrote: |
| happeningthang wrote: |
In Australia, where I'm from, police are obliged to act on complaints. Perhaps, I shouldn't assume that's the case in a lot of countries, or that its what happened here, but it's a perfectly legitimate explanation for the actions of the K-cops.
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Don't give me that *beep*. You're trying to tell me that anytime some sloshed belligerent drunk comes up with some stupid story about how he was "assaulted," that Australian cops will waste time and man-power investigating it? Do you have any idea how many crank calls, phoney *beep* and false statements get made to police departments every day? Can you imagine the utter lack of ANYTHING that would get done if police departments gave every stupid drunk the same clout they gave to people who have something legitimately wrong with them? Unless the circumstances were extremely suspicious, any cop with half a brain would look at this situation and ascertain EXACTLY what happened.
I'm not sure what's worse... your portrayal of Australian cops as morons, or your defense of the K-Cops handling of the situation. |
Oh... was I giving you *beep*??
I don't know what's worse your inability to realise police aren't always free to act on what they ascertain as "exactly what happened" - look at my reply to Bippity - or your inability to understand that the role of the judge and jury isn't left up to the police.
There's usually a lot of nuance involved that you don't seem to take into account. |
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komerican
Joined: 17 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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I've read the metropolitician's blog several times. The assumption on this thread that Metropolitician is the victim here is problematic. From his blog I got the impression that the dude is on a crusade to change korea.
In other words, he needs to grow up. I don't know the facts surrounding the case and neither does anyone else here. There are always two sides to a story and we haven't heard the old man's story. As usual the petty purveyors of paronoia and fear are making hay over this. Let's wait to see what charges are brought up and how this issue is finally settled before we castigate a whole police force. |
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happeningthang
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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| stevieg4ever wrote: |
But you are not black are you? therefore you wouldnt be subject to the same kind of verbal onslaught that Metropolitician received by the ajossi.
and just because it has never happened to you doesnt mean that:
a) it doesnt happen to other people
b) it couldnt happen [to you] in the future
| happeningthang wrote: |
| It would be more convincing to someone like myself who has managed to spend a few years in Korea, and never once be part of something like this. |
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I think everyone accepts that Drunky McDrinkytoomuch is a racist git, but people are saying that the police are too - I think there's no strong evidence of it here.
And I have to agree with Komerican. Metropolitican has some very stong opinions about race and racism, and respected as he may be - I have no doubt they inform his accounts of things. |
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maximreality
Joined: 24 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:38 pm Post subject: Re: Help stop Korean police discrimination: Round 2 |
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| I dont't think this has anything to do with racism and the same could have happened to any Korean. What exactly is racist here? The fact is that police should investigate all allegations, whether they were made by a drunk ajossi or someone else - last time I checked it wasn't crime to be drunk.. Maybe a smarter policemen could have seen the situation better but can you really expect that and what would writing to your embassy really help? If there was something wrong in the way situation was handled it was due to plain stupidity and not racism. |
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jaganath69
Joined: 17 Jul 2003
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| Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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| komerican wrote: |
I've read the metropolitician's blog several times. The assumption on this thread that Metropolitician is the victim here is problematic. From his blog I got the impression that the dude is on a crusade to change korea.
In other words, he needs to grow up. I don't know the facts surrounding the case and neither does anyone else here. There are always two sides to a story and we haven't heard the old man's story. As usual the petty purveyors of paronoia and fear are making hay over this. Let's wait to see what charges are brought up and how this issue is finally settled before we castigate a whole police force. |
The man was repeatedly racially abused. That is fact. It is recorded for posterity. You are the one with a problem because you can't accept for a minute that there is a problem here with regards to the police treating foreigners with disdain and contempt, something that has been noted repeatedly here. Time for you to slink back to the fightin' 44s or wherever the feck you crawled in from. |
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Typhoon
Joined: 29 May 2007
Location: Daejeon
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| Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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| komerican wrote: |
I've read the metropolitician's blog several times. The assumption on this thread that Metropolitician is the victim here is problematic. From his blog I got the impression that the dude is on a crusade to change korea.
In other words, he needs to grow up. I don't know the facts surrounding the case and neither does anyone else here. There are always two sides to a story and we haven't heard the old man's story. As usual the petty purveyors of paronoia and fear are making hay over this. Let's wait to see what charges are brought up and how this issue is finally settled before we castigate a whole police force. |
Nothing will happen. Both will be let go with no charges for sure. The victim in this case gets screwed as the person harrassing or assulting can counter any claim with a lie of his/her own. The victim will not want to risk getting screwed so he/she will drop the complaint and everything goes back to normal. This is how it works here for Koreans and foreigners. The only time it works otherwise is when someone really gets hurt in a fight (like in the hospital over a week) or if one person is really rich/influential then the result will be in their favor. It is not racist that is just the way that it is here. It sucks, but it is the same for Korean and foreign victims. Koreans hate the system just as much as foreigners do. Just ask them about the police and the justice system in Korea. Most Koreans do not like either. |
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happeningthang
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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OK. Here's where I think everyone is getting matters confused and emotionally charged up. Yes, Metro's story involves some racist discrimination + the police are involved in the story... but that DOES NOT = racist police.
| jaganath69 wrote: |
The man was repeatedly racially abused. That is fact. It is recorded for posterity. |
By the drunken ajosshi.
| jaganath69 wrote: |
You are the one with a problem because you can't accept for a minute that there is a problem here with regards to the police treating foreigners with disdain and contempt, something that has been noted repeatedly here. Time for you to slink back to the fightin' 44s or wherever the feck you crawled in from. |
No racial abuse by the police.
[/quote] |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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| jaganath69 wrote: |
| komerican wrote: |
I've read the metropolitician's blog several times. The assumption on this thread that Metropolitician is the victim here is problematic. From his blog I got the impression that the dude is on a crusade to change korea.
In other words, he needs to grow up. I don't know the facts surrounding the case and neither does anyone else here. There are always two sides to a story and we haven't heard the old man's story. As usual the petty purveyors of paronoia and fear are making hay over this. Let's wait to see what charges are brought up and how this issue is finally settled before we castigate a whole police force. |
The man was repeatedly racially abused. That is fact. It is recorded for posterity. You are the one with a problem because you can't accept for a minute that there is a problem here with regards to the police treating foreigners with disdain and contempt, something that has been noted repeatedly here. Time for you to slink back to the fightin' 44s or wherever the feck you crawled in from. |
Komerican will change his tune near the end of his contract the very second the boss says, "You don't love the students enough. You should have reflected on your teaching. The parents have complained. You must leave today. You must move out of the apartment tonight. I will not pay you severance because the end of the year is in three weeks not today. I will not pay you the salary you earned because I need it to pay the temporary teacher until I can hire a new teacher to replace you."
When Komerican asks the boss how he can treat "one of his own" that way and threatens to take the boss to court, the boss will simply say, "You are not Korean. You will lose."
Of course, Komerican will never post that event here. Pride is a big thing.
I see nothing wrong with Metropolitan "being on a crusade to change Korea" when that crusade is merely an attempt to get the locals to obey their own laws! |
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komerican
Joined: 17 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Typhoon wrote: |
| komerican wrote: |
I've read the metropolitician's blog several times. The assumption on this thread that Metropolitician is the victim here is problematic. From his blog I got the impression that the dude is on a crusade to change korea.
In other words, he needs to grow up. I don't know the facts surrounding the case and neither does anyone else here. There are always two sides to a story and we haven't heard the old man's story. As usual the petty purveyors of paronoia and fear are making hay over this. Let's wait to see what charges are brought up and how this issue is finally settled before we castigate a whole police force. |
Nothing will happen. Both will be let go with no charges for sure. The victim in this case gets screwed as the person harrassing or assulting can counter any claim with a lie of his/her own. The victim will not want to risk getting screwed so he/she will drop the complaint and everything goes back to normal. This is how it works here for Koreans and foreigners. The only time it works otherwise is when someone really gets hurt in a fight (like in the hospital over a week) or if one person is really rich/influential then the result will be in their favor. It is not racist that is just the way that it is here. It sucks, but it is the same for Korean and foreign victims. Koreans hate the system just as much as foreigners do. Just ask them about the police and the justice system in Korea. Most Koreans do not like either. |
Actually, in the US most cases are plea bargained, about 95%.In other words, most cases do not go to trial. If every case went to trial and you had a full disclosure of the facts with witnesses and complete presentation of the plaintiff's and defendant's cases you would paralyze the whole criminal justice system.
If you know a better way to handle this situation then please tell us how you would order the justice system. The way it's set up here in korea avoids a very costly trial, costly to the taxpayers, unless there are real injuries sustained in the incident. Pea bargaining and arbitration for civil cases handle over 90% of the cases in the US.
I've encountered drunks at bars and restaurants. I've been with foreigners when this happened. Usually, when something happens things settle down after a few choice words. There's something about this case that seems odd. We're getting a totally one-dimensional view of the so called perp. What really happened that made the perp chase the alleged victim here? Either the perp is a nutjob or the alleged victim hasn't told us the whole story. Maybe he doesn't know the whole set of facts himself.
All I'm saying is that people are getting too hysterical about the cops here. Did Metro hit the perp? If there were witnesses to that or if the alleged victim admitted this himself to the cops then I don't think the cops had any other choice but to charge him with an assault. It depends, obviously, on what witnesses he can come up with to say it was in self-defence. We just don't know enough. But I'm certainly not going to start labeling the cops a bunch of racists because of this. |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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Komerican: How many times have you had a drunk Korean come up to you and make monkey noises to imitate the way you speak? I'd venture it's in the neighborhood of zero. It's happened more than a dozen times to me. I do not look like a monkey. I am Caucasian. And I speak Korean. It's quite easy to communicate with me like a human being. And I'm not normally in the company of drunks. I don't go to bars and I don't drink booze. These incidents are drunks coming up to me on the street or at the subway station or bus stop.
One day you will realize that Korean society is racist and the government here, regardless of the laws and the Constitution prohibiting racist policies by government agencies and private businesses, doesn't care a whit about it. And the general public doesn't care either. Merely talking on the subway escalator with one of my coteachers, who is female, got her a diatribe from another drunken Korean man for "being with that cursed foreigner." Where I lived in the United States, if someone spouted racist stuff like that in a public setting, many people would have verbally accosted the racist moron. Here? Not a word. Not even a pretense at being embarrassed for the poor woman getting the brunt of the diatribe.
Caucasians get much less of the racism other foreigners here do. Since Metropolitan is Black, I can easily believe his version of events. It's not at all out of the ordinary for a drunken Korean racist man in Korea to do.
On the other hand, I have had some good experience also with the police here. One incident can be credited to the simple fact that one of the two cops in the car knew me from church and chased after a jerkish taxi driver who was bent on getting into a physical fight with me. I was avoiding the driver. Another incident occurred last year when I ran to a police station about two blocks from where two drunks were trying to kill each other in front of children at a bus stop. The cops rushed out and were thrilled that I "cared enough about children so they wouldn't have to witness such an event."
I have had good and bad experiences here, as I'm sure most people have. You, on the other hand, are merely an apologist on this board for the bad behavior of the worst of Korean society. I actually do hope your boss does not stiff you at the end of your contract. But it could very well happen and you are the only one who thinks you're immune to that. |
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