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samd
Joined: 03 Jan 2007
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Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 2:50 am Post subject: |
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| caniff wrote: |
| Economic expansionism is now in vogue. Why physically take over territory when you can economically control the people who live there instead? It's much more profitable and it comes without the 'moral' baggage. |
That was my point. The OP suggested China wanted to expand its physical territory. I suggested otherwise.
Oh, and thanks for calling me a tremendous tool - you're a champion. |
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scytale
Joined: 26 Apr 2008
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Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 2:56 am Post subject: |
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| I think that basically, the problem that China has at this point in terms of any kind of domination is how much further behind the rest of the region it is. I understand that they are growing at a very fast rate, but really what we have here is a country that was at a standstill, in terms of scientific and economic progress through most of the 50's, 60's, 70's, and early 80's. Admitting that is an issue of face for the Chinese government, but it's a fact of life. |
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pugwall
Joined: 22 Oct 2006
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Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 3:17 am Post subject: |
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| The thing is we simply do not know where China is going. I was reading an economic article today written by a Chinese-American Washington based academic in 1997 saying that by 2010 there was no way China would be a major economic power. As Deng Xiao Ping said 'China is crossing the river by grasping for stones' and now it seems we are all intrinsically along for the ride. |
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lastat06513
Joined: 18 Mar 2003 Location: Sensus amo Caesar , etiamnunc victus amo uni plebian
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Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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So would it be safe to say that China is only trying to catch up to the rest of the region in terms of economics, culture, technology and such that it staunchly rejected all the way until Jiang Zemin left office in the late 90's?
That is an interesting notion....  |
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scytale
Joined: 26 Apr 2008
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Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Not at all, Deng Xiaoping and Zhang Zemin were serious reformers. It's just that this country is slow to change; and there's a question as to whether or not it's going to change enough. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
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| China is not expansionist and they never have been. |
Then how did they get control of Manchuria, Inner Mongolia, Singkiang and Tibet? Wouldn't it be more accurate to say that China was always a land empire that expanded as far as the technology of the day conveniently allowed? |
The Yuan and Q'ing dynasties were foreign dynasties, Mongolian and Manchurian respectively. The T'ang dynasty did not conquer Tibet, in fact Tibet attacked the T'ang. The Ming were only briefly interested in the outside world, but Zheng He's missions were peaceful.
The Chinese are not traditionally expansionistic. And I really think most Chinese are more than content with holding Q'ing borders.
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pugwall
Joined: 22 Oct 2006
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Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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| lastat06513 wrote: |
So would it be safe to say that China is only trying to catch up to the rest of the region in terms of economics, culture, technology and such that it staunchly rejected all the way until Jiang Zemin left office in the late 90's?
That is an interesting notion....  |
No Deng was the biggest reformer of all. He inherited a seriously retarded country from Mao. Modern China's growth stems from Deng, his bottom-up economic reforms rescued the country. |
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djsmnc

Joined: 20 Jan 2003 Location: Dave's ESL Cafe
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Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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| I think we're going to all end up red star goose-steppers. |
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pugwall
Joined: 22 Oct 2006
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Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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| djsmnc wrote: |
| I think we're going to all end up red star goose-steppers. |
Better dead than red. |
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