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Swampfox10mm
Joined: 24 Mar 2011
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 Posted: Sun May 19, 2013 2:39 am Post subject: |
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| For those who see so much change, and feel there isn't any discrimination, who is the head of the family on your Hojuk? |
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nick70100
Joined: 09 Sep 2005
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| Posted: Sun May 19, 2013 2:47 am Post subject: |
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| Swampfox10mm wrote: |
| For those who see so much change, and feel there isn't any discrimination, who is the head of the family on your Hojuk? |
So if one problem remains, then all of the other positive changes don't matter?
I don't recall anyone saying there isn't ANY discrimination, just that things are getting better rather than worse. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Sun May 19, 2013 3:27 am Post subject: |
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| Swampfox10mm wrote: |
| For those who see so much change, and feel there isn't any discrimination, who is the head of the family on your Hojuk? |
who the hell said there was NO discrimination??? Seriously swampie you accuse some people of being apologists but you are the one throwing around absolutes....
change has occured sawmpie and it has done so in significant fashion when I compare with what things were like in 1997. Is more change needed or desired? I think so but as with any deep societal change, this takes time. If as a father of a mixed child and married to Korean woman you cannot see the changes and improvements that occured over the past decade then it is surprising. |
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Stan Rogers
Joined: 20 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Sun May 19, 2013 6:56 am Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| Swampfox10mm wrote: |
| For those who see so much change, and feel there isn't any discrimination, who is the head of the family on your Hojuk? |
who the hell said there was NO discrimination??? Seriously swampie you accuse some people of being apologists but you are the one throwing around absolutes....
change has occured sawmpie and it has done so in significant fashion when I compare with what things were like in 1997. Is more change needed or desired? I think so but as with any deep societal change, this takes time. If as a father of a mixed child and married to Korean woman you cannot see the changes and improvements that occured over the past decade then it is surprising. |
There have been improvments. But the "Law of the Blood" still clearly discriminiates against Korean women who bear a child of a foreign father in Korea. If a foreign woman bears a child of a Korean father the rules are different. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sun May 19, 2013 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Swampfox10mm wrote: |
| For those who see so much change, and feel there isn't any discrimination, who is the head of the family on your Hojuk? |
Curious, would it be the most direct male in the child's lineage of Korean citizenship?
That sounds like a case of some form of agnatic primogeniture. |
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Swampfox10mm
Joined: 24 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Sun May 19, 2013 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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I give you a concrete, indisputable, government-sanctioned example of discrimination against foreign families and their acceptance in this society, and what do we see?
Apologists circling the wagons.
Oh, but "... it's just one example...."
Pretty big one, I'd say...
In any case.... Wife said a gov't report showed over 50% of Korean males over 40 are remaining unmarried. This culture, as is, is ending itself. |
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Who's Your Daddy?
Joined: 30 May 2010
Location: Victoria, Canada.
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| Posted: Sun May 19, 2013 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| Swampfox10mm wrote: |
| For those who see so much change, and feel there isn't any discrimination, who is the head of the family on your Hojuk? |
Curious, would it be the most direct male in the child's lineage of Korean citizenship?
That sounds like a case of some form of agnatic primogeniture. |
Only citizens can have a Hojuk, so if a foreign man, and Korean woman have a family, it is the Korean woman (unless the man is naturalized).
On my son's birth registration form only his mother is indicated, foreigners are not shown. So according to government records, my son is a bastard. How modern is that? Even Obama's records showed his Kenyan father back in 1961! |
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goreality
Joined: 09 Jul 2009
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| Posted: Sun May 19, 2013 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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| They will just throw some more money at the problem and hope it goes away. Koreans will continue complain that the foreigner school children get treated better by the government being allowed free things and the possibility to join foreigner schools. Foreigners will complain Korean school children get treated better by classmates and more naturally by staff members. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sun May 19, 2013 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Who's Your Daddy? wrote: |
Only citizens can have a Hojuk, so if a foreign man, and Korean woman have a family, it is the Korean woman (unless the man is naturalized).
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Is Hojuk used to enact the benefits and responsibilities of being a Korean citizen?
If, for example, you were listed on the Hojuk, would that make you liable to serve in the Korean military or be used as a record permitting you to vote? |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun May 19, 2013 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Swampfox10mm wrote: |
I give you a concrete, indisputable, government-sanctioned example of discrimination against foreign families and their acceptance in this society, and what do we see?
Apologists circling the wagons.
Oh, but "... it's just one example...."
Pretty big one, I'd say...
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The hojok?
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| The National Assembly passed a revision to the civil law early this month to keep up with changes in society's concept of family by removing the distinction between adopted and biological children in the document of the Confucian family registry system, called ''hojok. . |
(bolding mine)
http://dic.daum.net/search.do?q=revision&t=example&dic=eng&search_first=Y&page=5
Yep that's a shining example of discrimination against foreign families alright... |
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T-J
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae
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| Posted: Sun May 19, 2013 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Swampfox10mm wrote: |
I give you a concrete, indisputable, government-sanctioned example of discrimination against foreign families and their acceptance in this society, and what do we see?
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I think what I said was, "An incredible amount of change has taken place since I first came 22 years ago. Change is accelerating if anything."
I didn't say that there were no obstacles yet to be overcome.
As for examples:
I came in 1991, Roh TaeWoo was still president. A year later the first peaceful transition of power from one democratically elected leader to another took place.
I was married in 1995, there was no visa for a foreign man married to a Korean woman. I was told by immigration to "Take her home".
The F-2 visa became available to foreign men around 98 or 99 soon after we moved to the U.S. but a second employment visa was still required.
The F-2 visa enabled men to work without a second visa around 02, I believe.
Within the past few years the F-2 visa is now acquirable through a points system and the spousal visa designation was moved to F-6. Both of these visas lead easily to an F-5 or permanent residency.
A foreign born naturalized citizen is the head of the Korean Tourism Organization, and another was recently elected to the National Assembly.
In 2009 The Supreme Court revised regulations allowing foreigners married to Koreans here to have their nationality and foreigner registration number recorded on the family relation registry.
Again, not saying we are there yet, but I think all of these changes are certainly moving in the right direction and happening not only quickly but quicker as time goes on.
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Seoulman69
Joined: 14 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 2:33 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| On my son's birth registration form only his mother is indicated, foreigners are not shown. So according to government records, my son is a bastard. How modern is that? Even Obama's records showed his Kenyan father back in 1961! |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
Yep that's a shining example of discrimination against foreign families alright... |
Damn right! |
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T-J
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae
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| Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 4:03 am Post subject: |
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Only thing is we crossed this hurdle years ago.
Foreign fathers ARE listed on both birth certificates and family registry now. The old Hojuk system changed years ago.
Like I said, changing and changing fast. Try to keep up. There are still many things that need to be done but it helps if you're not still complaining about issues that have already been rectified.
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 4:17 am Post subject: |
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TJ has showed how things have changed over the years. He has done so clearly and with facts. He has been here longer than most of us were or are in Korea.
As for Korea and foreigners, the situation has changed a lot since I first arrived. Access to services, protection under the law and access to residency has changed dramatically over that time span.
There is still discrimination to be sure and some obstacles to overcome as TJ has said but I think some on here are unable or just unwilling to discuss this with any sort of perspective that goes beyond the large paint brush in order to make broad judgements.
Swampie, apologists are not circling the wagon and that mental construct of yours is really getting old. In this particular thread you are the one talking in absolutes and refusing to discuss this with any form of nuance. TJ has made several points showing how things have changed and neither him, myself or any other in this thread has said there is no discrimination. That is just your fabrication as it fits your Daves Scheme of posting. |
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Swampfox10mm
Joined: 24 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 4:52 am Post subject: |
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| T-J wrote: |
Only thing is we crossed this hurdle years ago.
Foreign fathers ARE listed on both birth certificates and family registry now. The old Hojuk system changed years ago.
Like I said, changing and changing fast. Try to keep up. There are still many things that need to be done but it helps if you're not still complaining about issues that have already been rectified.
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No, I specifically asked who is listed as the HEAD of your family on the Hojuk?
It helps if you read the post. |
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