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Justin Hale
Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Location: the Straight Talk Express
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 Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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| jkelly80 wrote: |
| Everyone is aware of what goes in these societies, and it's horrible, but you're making it out to be a cultural apocalypse, which is flat out ridiculous. |
Well, what was your original assertion?
What needs to proven here is that Islamist thought is a natural outgrowth of Muslim theology, and also that it is the lone valid interpretation of this theology. Also, that the Koran and Hadith are substantially more hateful and divisive than the Torah and New Testament, also taking into account the Apocryphal and Gnostic gospels.
Peel answered that most ('the vast majority of' would've been the way I put it) Muslims simply believe the book to be absolutely trustworthy, sure, unfailing in effectiveness and operation, chronicling their 6th Century lunatic and celestial genocidal dictator whom they believe in and worship, and urging that believers in other deities (or none) to be burned with fire. |
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jkelly80
Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Location: you boys like mexico?
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Justin Hale wrote: |
| jkelly80 wrote: |
| Everyone is aware of what goes in these societies, and it's horrible, but you're making it out to be a cultural apocalypse, which is flat out ridiculous. |
Well, what was your original assertion?
What needs to proven here is that Islamist thought is a natural outgrowth of Muslim theology, and also that it is the lone valid interpretation of this theology. Also, that the Koran and Hadith are substantially more hateful and divisive than the Torah and New Testament, also taking into account the Apocryphal and Gnostic gospels.
Peel answered that most ('the vast majority of' would've been the way I put it) Muslims simply believe the book to be absolutely trustworthy, sure, unfailing in effectiveness and operation, chronicling their 6th Century lunatic and celestial genocidal dictator whom they believe in and worship, and urging that believers in other deities (or none) to be burned with fire. |
You have yet to provide any evidence as to how you know what "most" or "vast majority of" Muslims believe, beyond a vague assertion that has neither evidence nor methodology to back it up. And you've yet to provide any compelling argument as to why the Islamist interpretation is the only possible result of the Koran and the Hadith. As Kuros noted earlier, prevailing trends and thinkers within Muslim theology have certainly contributed to a winnowed philosophical mindset, but to frame this development as inevitable sounds entirely too simplistic to me.
According to your logic I can point to these jerkoffs and their quoting of Leviticus. Then I can just say "a lot Christians believe this," but that would be over reductive and stupid, wouldn't it? |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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| jkelly80 wrote: |
| Everyone is aware of what goes in these societies, and it's horrible, but you're making it out to be a cultural apocalypse, which is flat out ridiculous. |
I don't think it will be a cultural apocalypse. At least not for us. A couple European states might submit but the backlash against islam is going to be stunning. That is the ultimate irony. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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| jkelly80 wrote: |
According to your logic I can point to these jerkoffs and their quoting of Leviticus. Then I can just say "a lot Christians believe this," but that would be over reductive and stupid, wouldn't it? |
Ha ha, yes but that's *exactly* the kind of mindset Justin Hale embodies. |
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chris_J2
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Location: From Brisbane, Au.
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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| From what I have read, Armageddon is supposed to be a final confrontation, between Islam & Christianity in Israel. Armageddon is a real place, north west of Jerusalem. Both the Koran & Bible have almost identical references to it. Egypt will allegedly be the leader of the Pan Arabic / Islamic League. Russia will back the Islamic States. But much of the Bible & Koran are both pretty cryptic, & perhaps as meaningful as Nostradamus? Very much depends on your personal interpretation &/or faith. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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| jkelly80 wrote: |
| You have yet to provide any evidence as to how you know what "most" or "vast majority of" Muslims believe, beyond a vague assertion that has neither evidence nor methodology to back it up. |
This is the last stand for the multicultural types. No longer can they defend islam, but now all they have is "well, muslims don't really believe the koran anyways". Of course, this is the assertion that has no evidence what so ever (where are those pro-reform demonstrations?) but makes white people feel good regardless. |
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Justin Hale
Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Location: the Straight Talk Express
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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| jkelly80 wrote: |
You have yet to provide any evidence as to how you know what "most" or "vast majority of" Muslims believe, beyond a vague assertion that has neither evidence nor methodology to back it up. And you've yet to provide any compelling argument as to why the Islamist interpretation is the only possible result of the Koran and the Hadith. As Kuros noted earlier, prevailing trends and thinkers within Muslim theology have certainly contributed to a winnowed philosophical mindset, but to frame this development as inevitable sounds entirely too simplistic to me. |
Strict, conservative Saudi-based Wahhabism (or Salafism) teaches that Muslims should reject absolutely any non-Muslim ideas and practices, including political ones. In its harshest form, it preached that Muslims should not only always oppose infidels in every way, but "hate them for their religion ... for Allah's sake," that democracy is responsible for all the horrible wars of the 20th century, that Shia and other non-Wahhabi Muslims were infidels. Not all Muslims converted to the Wahhabist interpretation of Islam, but it has done much to overwhelm more moderate local interpretations, and has set the Saudi-interpretation of Islam as the "gold standard" of religion in Muslims' minds.
Osama Bin Laden was most offended by the fact that American troops were in his former home nation.
Evidence? You could try SAUDI PUBLICATIONS ON HATE IDEOLOGY INVADE AMERICAN MOSQUES, which paints a fairly clear picture.
| Jkelly80 wrote: |
| According to your logic I can point to these jerkoffs and their quoting of Leviticus. Then I can just say "a lot Christians believe this," but that would be over reductive and stupid, wouldn't it? |
Them's true Christians. Unlike moderates, who pick and choose arbitrarily, they have the most internally consistent, most evidenced interpretation of the Bible. |
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jkelly80
Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Location: you boys like mexico?
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Justin Hale wrote: |
| jkelly80 wrote: |
You have yet to provide any evidence as to how you know what "most" or "vast majority of" Muslims believe, beyond a vague assertion that has neither evidence nor methodology to back it up. And you've yet to provide any compelling argument as to why the Islamist interpretation is the only possible result of the Koran and the Hadith. As Kuros noted earlier, prevailing trends and thinkers within Muslim theology have certainly contributed to a winnowed philosophical mindset, but to frame this development as inevitable sounds entirely too simplistic to me. |
Strict, conservative Saudi-based Wahhabism (or Salafism) teaches that Muslims should reject absolutely any non-Muslim ideas and practices, including political ones. In its harshest form, it preached that Muslims should not only always oppose infidels in every way, but "hate them for their religion ... for Allah's sake," that democracy is responsible for all the horrible wars of the 20th century, that Shia and other non-Wahhabi Muslims were infidels. Not all Muslims converted to the Wahhabist interpretation of Islam, but it has done much to overwhelm more moderate local interpretations, and has set the Saudi-interpretation of Islam as the "gold standard" of religion in Muslims' minds.
Osama Bin Laden was most offended by the fact that American troops were in his former home nation.
Evidence? You could try SAUDI PUBLICATIONS ON HATE IDEOLOGY INVADE AMERICAN MOSQUES, which paints a fairly clear picture.
| Jkelly80 wrote: |
| According to your logic I can point to these jerkoffs and their quoting of Leviticus. Then I can just say "a lot Christians believe this," but that would be over reductive and stupid, wouldn't it? |
Them's true Christians. Unlike moderates, who pick and choose arbitrarily, they have the most internally consistent, most evidenced interpretation of the Bible. |
Let's try it again:
| I wrote: |
You have yet to provide any evidence as to how you know what "most" or "vast majority of" Muslims believe, beyond a vague assertion that has neither evidence nor methodology to back it up.
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jkelly80
Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Location: you boys like mexico?
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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