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OnTheOtherSide
Joined: 29 Feb 2008
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 Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| OnTheOtherSide wrote: |
| What you are failing to acknowledge is that our system of agriculture drives other species into extinction and consumes land. Other species USE the land and leave the balance in tact, humans TAKE OVER the land and ruin it for all other species. That's the key difference. |
It's not a key difference at all. Any species would drive any other number of species into extinction if it could do so and doing so would benefit it. That's not playing god, it's totally natural. There's no altruism in nature; even human environmentalism at its core is about humans, because we benefit from a world with other species in it.
All you're pointing out is that humans are more capable than other species. There's nothing unnatural about that, and it's not playing god. It's just plain old natural competition.
| OnTheOtherSide wrote: |
| This system has been working. But it's like a runaway train that has not quite crashed yet. The crash will come innevitably. |
And if it does, it will be exactly the same as when the goats run out of grass. They over-grazed, and over-reproduced, and a backlash occurs as a result.
Your attempt to condemn anything humans do as unnatural is simply in error. |
Any species WOULD do this.
But humans are the only species that CAN and ARE doing it.
Major difference. You are speaking in "woulds" and "coulds". I'm speaking on what is actually happening right now. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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| OnTheOtherSide wrote: |
| I am not going to argue this. I've spoken my piece. Time will be the judge. There is nothing we have right now that can save us from the threat we pose to ourselves. But there are new diseases being created right now that will one day be unleashed on the public..... |
Is your name John Holdren? Do you know something we don't?
I suppose your solution will be to give lethal, brain damaging, and totally useless vaccines to our women and children... |
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OnTheOtherSide
Joined: 29 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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| visitorq wrote: |
| OnTheOtherSide wrote: |
| I am not going to argue this. I've spoken my piece. Time will be the judge. There is nothing we have right now that can save us from the threat we pose to ourselves. But there are new diseases being created right now that will one day be unleashed on the public..... |
Is your name John Holdren? Do you know something we don't?
I suppose your solution will be to give lethal, brain damaging, and totally useless vaccines to our women and children... |
There's nothing pretty about killing lots of people to save the world.
But. Ya gotta do what ya gotta do 
The only other option is to let things keep going as they are. Until the Earth is so messed up and depleted of resources that it can only support a billion people anyway.
Either way. Big time death is coming. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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| OnTheOtherSide wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| OnTheOtherSide wrote: |
| What you are failing to acknowledge is that our system of agriculture drives other species into extinction and consumes land. Other species USE the land and leave the balance in tact, humans TAKE OVER the land and ruin it for all other species. That's the key difference. |
It's not a key difference at all. Any species would drive any other number of species into extinction if it could do so and doing so would benefit it. That's not playing god, it's totally natural. There's no altruism in nature; even human environmentalism at its core is about humans, because we benefit from a world with other species in it.
All you're pointing out is that humans are more capable than other species. There's nothing unnatural about that, and it's not playing god. It's just plain old natural competition.
| OnTheOtherSide wrote: |
| This system has been working. But it's like a runaway train that has not quite crashed yet. The crash will come innevitably. |
And if it does, it will be exactly the same as when the goats run out of grass. They over-grazed, and over-reproduced, and a backlash occurs as a result.
Your attempt to condemn anything humans do as unnatural is simply in error. |
Any species WOULD do this.
But humans are the only species that CAN and ARE doing it. |
Which is why it's not playing god, or being unnatural, but simply being successful. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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| OnTheOtherSide wrote: |
| visitorq wrote: |
| OnTheOtherSide wrote: |
| I am not going to argue this. I've spoken my piece. Time will be the judge. There is nothing we have right now that can save us from the threat we pose to ourselves. But there are new diseases being created right now that will one day be unleashed on the public..... |
Is your name John Holdren? Do you know something we don't?
I suppose your solution will be to give lethal, brain damaging, and totally useless vaccines to our women and children... |
There's nothing pretty about killing lots of people to save the world.
But. Ya gotta do what ya gotta do
The only other option is to let things keep going as they are. Until the Earth is so messed up and depleted of resources that it can only support a billion people anyway.
Either way. Big time death is coming. |
Please, go kill yourself first. Lead by example. And take John Holdren, Paul Ehrlich, the Rockefellers, and the rest of them with you. I believe that in itself will make the world a better place. And if not, no skin off your back (you're already dead)... |
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OnTheOtherSide
Joined: 29 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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| visitorq wrote: |
| OnTheOtherSide wrote: |
| visitorq wrote: |
| OnTheOtherSide wrote: |
| I am not going to argue this. I've spoken my piece. Time will be the judge. There is nothing we have right now that can save us from the threat we pose to ourselves. But there are new diseases being created right now that will one day be unleashed on the public..... |
Is your name John Holdren? Do you know something we don't?
I suppose your solution will be to give lethal, brain damaging, and totally useless vaccines to our women and children... |
There's nothing pretty about killing lots of people to save the world.
But. Ya gotta do what ya gotta do
The only other option is to let things keep going as they are. Until the Earth is so messed up and depleted of resources that it can only support a billion people anyway.
Either way. Big time death is coming. |
Please, go kill yourself first. Lead by example. And take John Holdren, Paul Ehrlich, the Rockefellers, and the rest of them with you. I believe that in itself will make the world a better place. And if not, no skin of your back (you're already dead)... |
No thanks. I will TRY to be one of the survivors. But if I get killed, no hard feelings.
Many cows, pigs, chickens and plants have died to keep me alive. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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| OnTheOtherSide wrote: |
| visitorq wrote: |
| OnTheOtherSide wrote: |
| visitorq wrote: |
| OnTheOtherSide wrote: |
| I am not going to argue this. I've spoken my piece. Time will be the judge. There is nothing we have right now that can save us from the threat we pose to ourselves. But there are new diseases being created right now that will one day be unleashed on the public..... |
Is your name John Holdren? Do you know something we don't?
I suppose your solution will be to give lethal, brain damaging, and totally useless vaccines to our women and children... |
There's nothing pretty about killing lots of people to save the world.
But. Ya gotta do what ya gotta do
The only other option is to let things keep going as they are. Until the Earth is so messed up and depleted of resources that it can only support a billion people anyway.
Either way. Big time death is coming. |
Please, go kill yourself first. Lead by example. And take John Holdren, Paul Ehrlich, the Rockefellers, and the rest of them with you. I believe that in itself will make the world a better place. And if not, no skin of your back (you're already dead)... |
No thanks. I will TRY to be one of the survivors. But if I get killed, no hard feelings. |
Hypocrisy at its finest. Truly shameless. |
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OnTheOtherSide
Joined: 29 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| OnTheOtherSide wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| OnTheOtherSide wrote: |
| What you are failing to acknowledge is that our system of agriculture drives other species into extinction and consumes land. Other species USE the land and leave the balance in tact, humans TAKE OVER the land and ruin it for all other species. That's the key difference. |
It's not a key difference at all. Any species would drive any other number of species into extinction if it could do so and doing so would benefit it. That's not playing god, it's totally natural. There's no altruism in nature; even human environmentalism at its core is about humans, because we benefit from a world with other species in it.
All you're pointing out is that humans are more capable than other species. There's nothing unnatural about that, and it's not playing god. It's just plain old natural competition.
| OnTheOtherSide wrote: |
| This system has been working. But it's like a runaway train that has not quite crashed yet. The crash will come innevitably. |
And if it does, it will be exactly the same as when the goats run out of grass. They over-grazed, and over-reproduced, and a backlash occurs as a result.
Your attempt to condemn anything humans do as unnatural is simply in error. |
Any species WOULD do this.
But humans are the only species that CAN and ARE doing it. |
Which is why it's not playing god, or being unnatural, but simply being successful. |
If success is measured by pure expansionism and destructive take over.
I guess you would call a forest fire successful too if it burned the hell out of the maximum amount and forest and destroyed to the absolute fullest.
Now that's SUCCESS! |
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OnTheOtherSide
Joined: 29 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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| visitorq wrote: |
| OnTheOtherSide wrote: |
| visitorq wrote: |
| OnTheOtherSide wrote: |
| visitorq wrote: |
| OnTheOtherSide wrote: |
| I am not going to argue this. I've spoken my piece. Time will be the judge. There is nothing we have right now that can save us from the threat we pose to ourselves. But there are new diseases being created right now that will one day be unleashed on the public..... |
Is your name John Holdren? Do you know something we don't?
I suppose your solution will be to give lethal, brain damaging, and totally useless vaccines to our women and children... |
There's nothing pretty about killing lots of people to save the world.
But. Ya gotta do what ya gotta do
The only other option is to let things keep going as they are. Until the Earth is so messed up and depleted of resources that it can only support a billion people anyway.
Either way. Big time death is coming. |
Please, go kill yourself first. Lead by example. And take John Holdren, Paul Ehrlich, the Rockefellers, and the rest of them with you. I believe that in itself will make the world a better place. And if not, no skin of your back (you're already dead)... |
No thanks. I will TRY to be one of the survivors. But if I get killed, no hard feelings. |
Hypocrisy at its finest. Truly shameless. |
Kid. Try for one minute to drop your sappy morals and ethics and look at the situation from a purely logical perspective. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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| OnTheOtherSide wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| OnTheOtherSide wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| OnTheOtherSide wrote: |
| What you are failing to acknowledge is that our system of agriculture drives other species into extinction and consumes land. Other species USE the land and leave the balance in tact, humans TAKE OVER the land and ruin it for all other species. That's the key difference. |
It's not a key difference at all. Any species would drive any other number of species into extinction if it could do so and doing so would benefit it. That's not playing god, it's totally natural. There's no altruism in nature; even human environmentalism at its core is about humans, because we benefit from a world with other species in it.
All you're pointing out is that humans are more capable than other species. There's nothing unnatural about that, and it's not playing god. It's just plain old natural competition.
| OnTheOtherSide wrote: |
| This system has been working. But it's like a runaway train that has not quite crashed yet. The crash will come innevitably. |
And if it does, it will be exactly the same as when the goats run out of grass. They over-grazed, and over-reproduced, and a backlash occurs as a result.
Your attempt to condemn anything humans do as unnatural is simply in error. |
Any species WOULD do this.
But humans are the only species that CAN and ARE doing it. |
Which is why it's not playing god, or being unnatural, but simply being successful. |
If success is measured by pure expansionism and destructive take over. |
Evolutionary success can be measured in two terms: the species continuing to exist, and species expansionism.
By both definitions, humans are thus far a success.
| OnTheOtherSide wrote: |
| I guess you would call a forest fire successful too if it burned the hell out of the maximum amount and forest and destroyed to the absolute fullest. |
I don't know how much sense it makes to talk about non-living things succeeding at anything. |
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OnTheOtherSide
Joined: 29 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| OnTheOtherSide wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| OnTheOtherSide wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| OnTheOtherSide wrote: |
| What you are failing to acknowledge is that our system of agriculture drives other species into extinction and consumes land. Other species USE the land and leave the balance in tact, humans TAKE OVER the land and ruin it for all other species. That's the key difference. |
It's not a key difference at all. Any species would drive any other number of species into extinction if it could do so and doing so would benefit it. That's not playing god, it's totally natural. There's no altruism in nature; even human environmentalism at its core is about humans, because we benefit from a world with other species in it.
All you're pointing out is that humans are more capable than other species. There's nothing unnatural about that, and it's not playing god. It's just plain old natural competition.
| OnTheOtherSide wrote: |
| This system has been working. But it's like a runaway train that has not quite crashed yet. The crash will come innevitably. |
And if it does, it will be exactly the same as when the goats run out of grass. They over-grazed, and over-reproduced, and a backlash occurs as a result.
Your attempt to condemn anything humans do as unnatural is simply in error. |
Any species WOULD do this.
But humans are the only species that CAN and ARE doing it. |
Which is why it's not playing god, or being unnatural, but simply being successful. |
If success is measured by pure expansionism and destructive take over. |
Evolutionary success can be measured in two terms: the species continuing to exist, and species expansionism.
By both definitions, humans are thus far a success.
| OnTheOtherSide wrote: |
| I guess you would call a forest fire successful too if it burned the hell out of the maximum amount and forest and destroyed to the absolute fullest. |
I don't know how much sense it makes to talk about non-living things succeeding at anything. |
Well there are most definitely two differing philosophies on this issue and they are both basically speculation. I've seen this debate a thousand times and it never gos anywhere.
We shall wait and see. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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| OnTheOtherSide wrote: |
| visitorq wrote: |
| OnTheOtherSide wrote: |
| visitorq wrote: |
| OnTheOtherSide wrote: |
| visitorq wrote: |
| OnTheOtherSide wrote: |
| I am not going to argue this. I've spoken my piece. Time will be the judge. There is nothing we have right now that can save us from the threat we pose to ourselves. But there are new diseases being created right now that will one day be unleashed on the public..... |
Is your name John Holdren? Do you know something we don't?
I suppose your solution will be to give lethal, brain damaging, and totally useless vaccines to our women and children... |
There's nothing pretty about killing lots of people to save the world.
But. Ya gotta do what ya gotta do
The only other option is to let things keep going as they are. Until the Earth is so messed up and depleted of resources that it can only support a billion people anyway.
Either way. Big time death is coming. |
Please, go kill yourself first. Lead by example. And take John Holdren, Paul Ehrlich, the Rockefellers, and the rest of them with you. I believe that in itself will make the world a better place. And if not, no skin of your back (you're already dead)... |
No thanks. I will TRY to be one of the survivors. But if I get killed, no hard feelings. |
Hypocrisy at its finest. Truly shameless. |
Kid. Try for one minute to drop your sappy morals and ethics and look at the situation from a purely logical perspective. |
This from the guy who openly says forced sterilization is a good thing, just as long as it isn't him who gets sterilized? The purely logical perspective is that you are a hypocrite, and basically (if I were to go just on what you've written here) a bad person all around. You are advocating some of the most unnecessary, horrible, and unethical things imaginable.
Anyway, all the moral points aside, you're just plain wrong. I posted a video earlier with real scientists (many of whom are authorities on the subject) discussing how man-made climate change is a total sham. I bet you didn't watch it. Nor have you posted a single link or shred of evidence to back up your bullshit claims that humans are over the limit and need to be killed off.
The only point you've made is that you hate humanity, while at the same time considering yourself an exception. I guess you consider yourself to be "special" or something  |
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OnTheOtherSide
Joined: 29 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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| visitorq wrote: |
| OnTheOtherSide wrote: |
| visitorq wrote: |
| OnTheOtherSide wrote: |
| visitorq wrote: |
| OnTheOtherSide wrote: |
| visitorq wrote: |
| OnTheOtherSide wrote: |
| I am not going to argue this. I've spoken my piece. Time will be the judge. There is nothing we have right now that can save us from the threat we pose to ourselves. But there are new diseases being created right now that will one day be unleashed on the public..... |
Is your name John Holdren? Do you know something we don't?
I suppose your solution will be to give lethal, brain damaging, and totally useless vaccines to our women and children... |
There's nothing pretty about killing lots of people to save the world.
But. Ya gotta do what ya gotta do
The only other option is to let things keep going as they are. Until the Earth is so messed up and depleted of resources that it can only support a billion people anyway.
Either way. Big time death is coming. |
Please, go kill yourself first. Lead by example. And take John Holdren, Paul Ehrlich, the Rockefellers, and the rest of them with you. I believe that in itself will make the world a better place. And if not, no skin of your back (you're already dead)... |
No thanks. I will TRY to be one of the survivors. But if I get killed, no hard feelings. |
Hypocrisy at its finest. Truly shameless. |
Kid. Try for one minute to drop your sappy morals and ethics and look at the situation from a purely logical perspective. |
This from the guy who openly says forced sterilization is a good thing, just as long as it isn't him who gets sterilized? The purely logical perspective is that you are a hypocrite, and basically (if I were to go just on what you've written here) a bad person all around. You are advocating the most horrible things imaginable.
Anyway, all the moral points aside, you're just plain wrong. I posted a video earlier with real scientists (many of whom are authorities on the subject) discussing how man-made climate change is a total sham. I bet you didn't watch it. Nor have you posted a single link or shred of evidence to back up your bullshit claims that humans are over the limit and need to be killed off.
The only point you've made is that you hate humanity, while at the same time considering yourself an exception. I guess you consider yourself to be "special" or something |
I never even mentioned sterilization. Don't put words in my mouth. I don't need to be sterilized, i'm never gonna have a kid.
I don't consider myself an exception. When it comes down to it. We all have a survival instinct, including myself. So we the war begins, I will try to be one of the few survivors. But if I must die, i'm ready to go. We all die.
30,000 people starve to death every day man. 50,000 more die from everything from homicide to disease, yet the population keeps growing. Death and suffering is happening every day in this world anyway. regardless of what population control meaures are taken, the Earth is a cruel and unusual place. |
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OnTheOtherSide
Joined: 29 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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And as for whether or not climate change is a sham. I've got a few things to say.
First. I'm not even talking about climate change, i'm talking purely about overpopulation.
Second. There are many scientists with proof that CO2 levels in the atmosphere have skyrocketed in the past 70 years. I think this is fact.
Third. I've been studying and following this stuff for years. You are not gonna show me anything I havn't seen already. I have watched and read countless pieces and read lots of long books on the topic. Old news. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:54 pm Post subject: |
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| OnTheOtherSide wrote: |
| visitorq wrote: |
This from the guy who openly says forced sterilization is a good thing, just as long as it isn't him who gets sterilized? The purely logical perspective is that you are a hypocrite, and basically (if I were to go just on what you've written here) a bad person all around. You are advocating the most horrible things imaginable.
Anyway, all the moral points aside, you're just plain wrong. I posted a video earlier with real scientists (many of whom are authorities on the subject) discussing how man-made climate change is a total sham. I bet you didn't watch it. Nor have you posted a single link or shred of evidence to back up your bullshit claims that humans are over the limit and need to be killed off.
The only point you've made is that you hate humanity, while at the same time considering yourself an exception. I guess you consider yourself to be "special" or something |
I never even mentioned sterilization. Don't put words in my mouth. I don't need to be sterilized, i'm never gonna have a kid. |
You specifically said you agreed with the idea of mass forced sterilization that I quoted directly from the Holdren text (from his book). Maybe you just posted without reading carefully? Wanna take it back?
| Quote: |
| I don't consider myself an exception. When it comes down to it. We all have a survival instinct, including myself. So we the war begins, I will try to be one of the few survivors. But if I must die, i'm ready to go. We all die. |
We all die. So what? That doesn't mean we have to commit collective suicide, or allow the government to kill off vast swaths of humanity. You must be nuts to think this way.
| Quote: |
| 30,000 people starve to death every day man. 50,000 more die from everything from homicide to disease, yet the population keeps growing. Death and suffering is happening every day in this world anyway. regardless of what population control meaures are taken, the Earth is a cruel and unusual place. |
Starvation is a result of policy, and has nothing whatsoever to do with capacity. We produce enough food to feed far more people than exist today. Far more. What kills those people is policies by the UN and other governments that deliberately limit development. The biggest factor is the global banking system (led by the WB and IMF) that hook poorer countries onto the global ponzi scheme, indebt them permanently with interest, and then keep them perpetually impoverished.
We could easily feed everyone on the planet and then some, and increase their standard of living. But this is not what the people who run things (many of whom are eugenicists like yourself) want.
| Quote: |
| Second. There are many scientists with proof that CO2 levels in the atmosphere have skyrocketed in the past 70 years. I think this is fact. |
It is a fact. However, it is totally irrelevant. CO2 levels do not cause climate change - quite the opposite, they result from climate change itself, which is caused by the sun.
| Quote: |
| Third. I've been studying and following this stuff for years. You are not gonna show me anything I havn't seen already. I have watched and read countless pieces and read lots of long books on the topic. Old news. |
You obviously don't understand even the most rudimentary facts about it. So you'd better study some more... |
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