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Fat_Elvis

Joined: 17 Aug 2006 Location: In the ghetto
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Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 7:43 am Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| Fat_Elvis wrote: |
| mises wrote: |
| Andrea_andrea wrote: |
Tests are made relative to a culture. |
Nonsense. Total nonsense. You people will say anything if it allows the fraud to go on another day.
Genetic and other biological research will do to liberal ideas of egalitarianism what anthropology and Darwin did to creationism. |
There was no mention of genetics in the short piece on the study you originally posted, as far as I could see. |
http://www.ln.edu.hk/philoso/staff/sesardic/getfile.php?file=Race.pdf |
Wow, you found a scholar who argues for applying concepts of race. That's nice. There's still no mention of genetics in the study mentioned in your original post. |
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Menino80

Joined: 10 Jun 2007 Location: Hodor?
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Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 7:45 am Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
All dolphins are mammals. Not all mammals are dolphins.
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OK, well if dolphins killed 10 million people in Europe, I'd think that using the word "dolphin" in a discussion of mammals would come off as pointedly inflammatory and require some kind of further explanation. It's a rhetorical poop-bomb
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Anyways, I agree with you and your description of a sensible path. I'd include a social credit monetary system, or some variation of. |
agreed |
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Koveras
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
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Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 7:50 am Post subject: |
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| I'm so indignant right now! |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 7:52 am Post subject: |
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| Koveras wrote: |
| I'm so indignant right now! |
That's because you've majored in indignance studies and know precisely when and how to be indignant. |
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Koveras
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
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Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 7:56 am Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| Koveras wrote: |
| I'm so indignant right now! |
That's because you've majored in indignance studies and know precisely when and how to be indignant. |
You, sir, have an impeded understanding of indignance studies. |
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Kimbop

Joined: 31 Mar 2008
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Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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Menin80, I apologize for my vitriol. I did see an issue with "Confucianism leading to prosperity", or whatever you said. Confucianism certinaly does seem to correlate with intelligence, however.
Particularly, I find the chicken-egg dilemma difficult to prove, but there seem to be many correlates.
Anyway; does state led development, or national socialism -- or whatever you want to call it -- really lead to a higher intelligence quotient among a practicing country's people? Or are intelligent, sane people first required, along with the appropriate cultural factors? ie; the opposite of Haitians or Waziristanis.
Democracy can't exist among certain muslim peoples, and I reckon that state-led development also cannot function properly in certain countries.
Also, dumb people tend to make dumb babies, so this has to factor in. |
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kcs0001
Joined: 24 Jul 2005
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Konglishman

Joined: 14 Sep 2007 Location: Nanjing
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Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:36 am Post subject: |
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First of all, correlation is not the same thing as causation.
Further, some (if not many or most) of the statistics are simply invalid. Why should Vietnam's average IQ be the average of China and Thailand's? In fact, there is very little relation historically and linguistically speaking between Vietnam and Thailand. Do the author's really expect us to believe that Ethiopians have an average IQ of 65? If that were truly the case, then it would be a highly impressive feat that they are even able to speak a complex language and can farm. And what about the fact that many of these average scores are actually based off of average scores of a limited set of immigrants who were taking the exams in a language foreign to them (for example, Turkey's average IQ was derived from Turkish immigrants taking the IQ test in Dutch)?
Sorry, there are simply too many questionable things in this book that simply do not jive with actual reality.
Of course, national wealth probably does lead a greater "average IQ score", but does that actually have anything to do intelligence? If we are talking about having greater access to nutrition, there probably is a small amount of causation from this. But if a nation is not wealthy and does not see fit to administer IQ tests, then suddenly its statistics for IQ's will come from immigrants who left its country and took the IQ test in a foreign language.
So, there you have it. The authors managed to take a lot of questionable and invalid data and give it the thin facade of scholariness while drawing conclusions from it. I suppose that we should applaud them for finding a way to make some money from shoddy scholarship. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:58 am Post subject: |
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| I've read most of The 10,000-Year Explosion. It was a good book, and convinced me that there are various racial differences among different ethnicities around the world. But it also convinced me that favorable alleles do manage to rise to the top given any opportunity for racial intermixing. Also, I'm a lot more sanguine about ancient and medieval warfare, given its opportunity to spread favorable alleles, from the Hyksos to Alexander the Great to Genghis Khan. The authors are very tentative about the final implications of their findings, and I await further evidence and discovery of genetic history and sampling. As it is, the authors only had data on European-American, Far Eastern (Chinese and Japanese), and Nigerian populations. |
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kcs0001
Joined: 24 Jul 2005
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Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:52 am Post subject: |
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| People are desperate for evidence that Charles Murray is wrong. Look, you can make your own choice. People with an IQ of 80 or below tend to be unemployable in a developed economy X-agriculture. The jobs that illegal Mexicans, Guatemalans, and Salvadorans now do are in fact the jobs that African Americans used to do. Instead, the U.S. Gov't pays African Americans not to work- producing things like Detroit, St. Louis, West Memphis, and S. Chicago. |
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Menino80

Joined: 10 Jun 2007 Location: Hodor?
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Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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| kcs0001 wrote: |
| People are desperate for evidence that Charles Murray is wrong. Look, you can make your own choice. People with an IQ of 80 or below tend to be unemployable in a developed economy X-agriculture. The jobs that illegal Mexicans, Guatemalans, and Salvadorans now do are in fact the jobs that African Americans used to do. Instead, the U.S. Gov't pays African Americans not to work- producing things like Detroit, St. Louis, West Memphis, and S. Chicago. |
The loss of the manufacturing industry did that. Blame WWII for not destroying other countries more completely. |
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Andrea_andrea
Joined: 08 Mar 2011
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Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| Fat_Elvis wrote: |
| mises wrote: |
| Andrea_andrea wrote: |
Tests are made relative to a culture. |
Nonsense. Total nonsense. You people will say anything if it allows the fraud to go on another day.
Genetic and other biological research will do to liberal ideas of egalitarianism what anthropology and Darwin did to creationism. |
There was no mention of genetics in the short piece on the study you originally posted, as far as I could see. |
http://www.ln.edu.hk/philoso/staff/sesardic/getfile.php?file=Race.pdf |
http://medicine.yale.edu/labs/kidd/440.pdf
Abstract
In this article, the authors argue that the overwhelming portion of the literature on intelligence, race, and genetics is based on folk taxonomies rather than scientific analysis.They suggest that because theorists of intelligence disagree as to what it is, any consideration of its relationships to other constructs must be tentative at best. They further argue that race is a social construction with no scientific definition. Thus, studies of the relationship between race and other constructs may serve social ends but cannot serve scientific ends. No gene has yet been conclusively linked to intelligence, so attempts to provide a compelling genetic link of race to intelligence are not feasible at this time. The authors also show that heritability, a behavior genetic concept, is inadequate in regard to providing such a link. |
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004 Location: All over the map
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Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Caniff_caniff |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Thus, studies of the relationship between race and other constructs may serve social ends but cannot serve scientific ends. |
Translation? |
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004 Location: All over the map
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Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Thus, studies of the relationship between race and other constructs may serve social ends but cannot serve scientific ends. |
It can't serve both? A comprehensive study could perhaps yield neurological insights into the mind of your neighborhood Archie Bunker.
(heads up to Fox who just translated then deleted) |
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