| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Tony_Balony
Joined: 12 Apr 2007
|
 Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 7:24 pm Post subject: How to Deny The Holocaust And Get Away With It |
 |
|
| Quote: |
Armenian Issue Presents a Dilemma for U.S. Jews
E-MailPrint Single Page Reprints Save Share
Del.icio.usDiggFacebookNewsvinePermalink
By NEELA BANERJEE
Published: October 19, 2007
LEXINGTON, Mass., Oct. 17 � On the docket for the weekly selectmen�s meeting here on Monday were the location of park benches, a liquor license for Vinny T�s restaurant and, not for the first time, the killing of 1.5 million Armenians in Turkey 90 years ago.
The debate in this affluent Boston suburb, home to many Jews and Armenians, centered on a local program to increase awareness of bias. The issue was not the program itself, but its sponsor, the Anti-Defamation League, the Jewish advocacy group, which has taken a stand against a proposed Congressional resolution condemning the Armenians� deaths as genocide.
�If you deny one genocide,� said Dr. Jack Nusan Porter, a child of Holocaust survivors and a genocide studies scholar who attended the meeting, �you deny all genocides.�
The Congressional resolution has created an international furor and deeply offended the Turkish government, both a key ally of Israel�s and a crucial logistics player for the American presence in Iraq. But as events in Boston suburbs in recent months have shown, it has also put American Jews in an anguished dilemma as they try to reconcile their support of Israel with their commitment to fighting genocide. In the end, the Board of Selectmen here voted unanimously to cut ties with the Anti-Defamation League, as did three other Boston suburbs this week. Three other towns had already done so, with more considering the option.
For many Jews, the issue has involved much soul-searching.
�It�s hard to talk about it because there are two things or more in conflict here,� said Rabbi David Lerner of Temple Emunah in Lexington. �Israel is in a very vulnerable position in the world, and Turkey is its only friend in the Middle East. Genocide is a burning issue for us, now and in the past. It�s something of who we are.�
The House resolution condemning the killings of Armenians as genocide is nonbinding and largely symbolic, but Turkey�s reaction has been swift and furious. It has recalled its ambassador from Washington and threatened to withdraw critical logistical support for the Iraq war.
For Patrick Mehr, a Lexington resident who spoke at the meeting Monday, the overriding priority is condemning the killings, regardless of Turkey�s response.
The next day at his home, Mr. Mehr, the son of a Holocaust survivor, voiced the anger many Jews and Armenians feel toward Abraham H. Foxman, the Anti-Defamation League�s national director. �Abe Foxman, like George W. Bush, is mumbling that it may not have been genocide,� Mr. Mehr said. �Foxman talks about commissions of scholars who should study this. That, to me, rang exactly like Ahmadinejad saying, �Let�s have a committee to study the Holocaust.� Give me a break.�
Jewish leaders have long sought to focus attention on the killings of Armenians, starting with the American ambassador to Turkey in 1915, Henry Morgenthau Sr., who wrote in a cable that the Turkish violence against Armenians was �an effort to exterminate the race.� Several members of the House Foreign Affairs Committee who voted for the resolution, including a key sponsor, Representative Adam B. Schiff, Democrat of California, are Jewish.
Several major Jewish groups, like the American Jewish Committee, oppose the resolution, arguing that it is not the best way to persuade the Turks to examine their past.
Mr. Foxman argues that Turkey is the only friend Israel has in the Muslim world, and it has been hospitable to Jews since giving them refuge after they were driven from Europe during the Inquisition.
�Israel�s relationship with Turkey is the second most important, after its relationship with the United States,� Mr. Foxman said. �All this in a world that isolates Israel, and all this can�t simply be waved away.�
Widespread attention to the Anti-Defamation League�s opposition to the resolution came in July, when David Boyajian, an Armenian-American resident of Newton, Mass., wrote to a local newspaper saying that the town�s anti-bigotry program, known as No Place for Hate, was tarnished because of its sponsorship by the Anti-Defamation League.
He wrote that the A.D.L. �has made the Holocaust and its denial key pieces� of the program, �while at the same time hypocritically working with Turkey to oppose recognition of the Armenian genocide of 1915-23.�
|
[url]
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/19/us/19genocide.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin
[/url] |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
catman
Joined: 18 Jul 2004
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 7:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ADL had recognized the genocide but is opposed to congress passing the resolution because it will strain relations with Turkey, an ally of Israel and the US. Geopolitics really shouldn't play a part in this decision. Sad. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 7:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Hypocrites & unscrupulous political swine.
What of the WAR itself? How many lives were ritually sacrificed in WW1?
How many in WW2?
How many now in Iraq? Apparently over 1 MILLION IRAQIS have now been murdered.
Not good enough for crimes against humanity?
MOLOCH !!!
Oh yes, if anyone bothers to scratch beneath the surface, they'll discover the wonderful ROTHSCHILDS have played a major role in orchestrating this genocide / holocaust, just as they've had a hand in countless other unspeakable crimes 
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=rothschilds+armenian+genocide+holocaust |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
catman
Joined: 18 Jul 2004
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 11:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Those are white nationalist sites. I prefer actual Armenian testimony. And it says nothing about the JEWWWWWSSSSSS. It talks about the Muslim Turks though. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sincinnatislink
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
Location: Top secret.
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:36 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I read "Anti-Defamation League" I stop reading seriously. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hollywoodaction
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The US is being sanctimonious? Hardly news.
The Anti-defamation League, despite their apparent motives, is right. The resolution is ridiculous. I'm not disputing that genocide has occurred in Turkey, but just imagine for a moment that South Korea passed a similar resolution accusing the US of genocide or war crimes during the Korean War. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Anti-De-famation-League (classic double-think).
So who are they in LEAGUE with? 
Kinda like another nonsense term: anti-semit-ism. Why all the antis & isms?
Misplaced (FALSE) cognates?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_cognate
QUESTION: Doesn't an ANTI plus a DE = a double negative?
Why not just say it like it is? Why hide behind ANTIS?
Serves for effective propaganda & double-think catch-phrase programming.
Who exactly's doing the defaming?
PROS ???
CONS - Zionist criminal thugs.
| catman wrote: |
| And it says nothing about the JEWWWWWSSSSSS. It talks about the Muslim Turks though. |
jeeeeeeeeeeewwwssssssssss ??? huh?
You mean the so-called ATENISTS? LUCIFERIANS?
PHARISEE descendants of Israelite Pharoahs? (real or imagined)
Proud theocratic disciples of Ahkenaten / MOSES?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aten
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahkenaten |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
twg
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Location: Getting some fresh air...
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 6:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 4:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
| igotthisguitar wrote: |
Anti-De-famation-League (classic double-think).
So who are they in LEAGUE with?
Kinda like another nonsense term: anti-semit-ism. Why all the antis & isms?
Misplaced (FALSE) cognates?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_cognate
QUESTION: Doesn't an ANTI plus a DE = a double negative?
Why not just say it like it is? Why hide behind ANTIS?
Serves for effective propaganda & double-think catch-phrase programming.
Who exactly's doing the defaming?
PROS ???
CONS - Zionist criminal thugs.
| catman wrote: |
| And it says nothing about the JEWWWWWSSSSSS. It talks about the Muslim Turks though. |
jeeeeeeeeeeewwwssssssssss ??? huh?
You mean the so-called ATENISTS? LUCIFERIANS?
PHARISEE descendants of Israelite Pharoahs? (real or imagined)
Proud theocratic disciples of Ahkenaten / MOSES?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aten
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahkenaten |
Gopher" wrote to Igothisguitar
| Quote: |
Re: "hate & delusion": I do not and will not discuss your ideology. I question your choice of venue, however, and its implications regards your sanity.
Did you ever see the film A Beautiful Mind...? You seem to be living that life without the brilliance. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
pesawattahi
Joined: 30 Sep 2007
Location: it rubs the lotion on it's skin or else it gets the hose again
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 4:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
Why do they want to condemn Turkey when it was the Ottoman Empire that perpetuated the crime. As far as I can recall the Ottomans were defeated in WW1, their empire carved up amongst colonial powers (France and Britain), and the ol' Attaturk led a secular reformation of the reamianing country to theirs and everyones benefit.
It's like everyone continiously demanding Japan to apologize for the atrocities of WW2. After being nuked and humiliatingly defeated they were occupied and had their constitution rewritten by a foriegner. Since then they have continiously apologized and even made reparation payments.
In both cases the regimes that carried out the crimes were defeated (in both cases to the chagrin of those wronged they were defeated by someone else) and the countries today in no way resemble what they were 60 and 90 years ago. Let it rest. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Beeyee
Joined: 29 May 2007
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 5:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Sincinnatislink wrote: |
| I read "Anti-Defamation League" I stop reading seriously. |
Quite. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jkelly80
Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Location: you boys like mexico?
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 12:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| pesawattahi wrote: |
Why do they want to condemn Turkey when it was the Ottoman Empire that perpetuated the crime. As far as I can recall the Ottomans were defeated in WW1, their empire carved up amongst colonial powers (France and Britain), and the ol' Attaturk led a secular reformation of the reamianing country to theirs and everyones benefit.
It's like everyone continiously demanding Japan to apologize for the atrocities of WW2. After being nuked and humiliatingly defeated they were occupied and had their constitution rewritten by a foriegner. Since then they have continiously apologized and even made reparation payments.
In both cases the regimes that carried out the crimes were defeated (in both cases to the chagrin of those wronged they were defeated by someone else) and the countries today in no way resemble what they were 60 and 90 years ago. Let it rest. |
Well put. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 12:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Well put, indeed.
And I'd add, it's a little peculiar for town and city governments to have a 'foreign policy'. That's really not their job.
This is amusing coming from someone who says you should keep your mind open to hear alternative views about space lizards. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 2:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| pesawattahi wrote: |
It's like everyone continiously demanding Japan to apologize for the atrocities of WW2. After being nuked and humiliatingly defeated they were occupied and had their constitution rewritten by a foriegner. Since then they have continiously apologized and even made reparation payments.
|
I thought the issue was that Japanese heads of states kept going to Yakasuni Shrine and worshipping dead war criminals.
You can apologize all you want, but if Merkel were to pray in front of the graves of Eichmann and Himmler, the world would be questioning her sincerity.
----------
To get back on topic, I like the spirit of your Armenian genocide comments. But the West would be satisfied if Turkey merely acknowledged the genocide. Its very problematic for Turks to reject that it was a genocide, especially given recent events with the Kurds. And the US is in the best position to criticize the Turks, since we handed them Ocalan after the Europeans refused to do so.
Its hard to be too sympathetic for Turkey. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
