Korean Job Discussion Forums

[i4NI]

Any tricks here? Sounds too good to be true.

[Voyeur]

No tricks per se.

But it is not too good to be true, just "good".

You get almost no national holidays off. You can work a weekend day. Office hours are lower than places that make you put in 40 a week, but teaching hours can be high. You have to work hard at the teaching - no hangman.

Harder than your average hogwon or public school, but they pay you for it. Definitely worth considering if you are offered in top 50% of those ranges. More than worth considering - likely the best offer you will find for most people.

[i4NI]

It says only 120 teaching hours which is less than 8 hours a day for 5 weeks. What do you consider better btw? I don't see much better stuff posted unless you have a specialized degree and experience. In fact most of the job offers I see have me shaking my head.

[Join Me]

[KoreanAmbition]

i4ni,

96 hours per month

25K - 35K per hour

Multiply it out...

2.4 million - 3.36 million per month

Hmm, they seem to say 2.5 - 3.7.


120 hours per month

25K - 35K

Multiply it out...

3.0 million - 4.2 million per month.

Hmm, they say 3.1 to 4.2.


I know some of the above are not HUGE differences, but they are errors nonetheless. I'm not too big on places that put up ads with promises that aren't accurate.

The biggest difference is on the 35k salary and the 96 hours. Seems they cut a lot off the top if someone's not paying attention.

I also have openly questioned on here the ability of CDI to give the 120 hours people want instead of just the minimum.

HINT: Start calculating all your earnings based on 96 hours per month since that's their promise to you. If you get more, then fine, but by contract that's what you are entitled to. Make sure you're happy with their gaurantee before you count starting to count pennies that you haven't got yet.

Average salaries are like 30K per hour. At 96 hours, that's 2.88 million won per month.

2.88 million won per month, and:

-NO HOUSING
-NO SEVERANCE
-NO PENSION
-NO MEDICAL


I am not convinced by a company that says EVERY WORKER can get up to 120 hours, because it's just not true. That would mean they have an excess of students, and we all know that's not going to happen. As soon as they have more students they'll hire more teachers. There's no way every teacher gets their 120 hours.

Don't kid yourself... If CDI can give hours to a salaried guy that IS CONTRACTED to work 120 hours, or to YOU and you're hourly and CDI pays more... who do you think gets the hours? CDI is a business, and they will give the hours to the salaried employees first because they already pay for their entire 120 hours. After that, the leftovers go to the hourly workers.

I don't work for CDI, and never have. However, that is how any company would operate if they had half a brain, and I'm sure CDI isn't dumb by any means.

Take hourly if you want, but just PRAY you're not the guy that gets short-changed on hours.

Or take the safe salary contracts, and get bent over with 120 hours for 2.5 million, working out to be hardly more than 20k per hour.

[Voyeur]

It can be hard to consistently get 120 hours a month as an hourly. Depending upon location, ofc.

You have run some interesting math. I make substantially more than 30k / hour now so at this point CDI is a no brainer for me. However, I may need to revise upwards my tipping point at which CDI becomes better than other hogwons and/or public school as you have suggested that other places have upped salaries.

And don't public school teachers often teach extra classes so they get more than the 2.2 that is often advertised? And since they have to be on-site 40 hours a week no matter what, teaching those extra classes is almost like free money since it comes out of that time they would have to be on-site.

A lot seems to come down to apt. quality and rent cost in these comparisons. That and you couldn't pay me enough to teach a 40 person class

[i4NI]

Thanks for the replies. I'm wondering, how do you make more than 30k an hour Voyeur? I was under the impression that most hagwons and public school teachers didn't make much money, in fact I thought under 20k hourly.

I was actually just searching for a small morning gig but came across that cdi add. I'm only privately tutoring at the moment and needed something for the morning in the future.

[Voyeur]

CDI is IMO having some problems due to hiring some teachers on lower-end contracts that don't really cover the workload, regardless of how weak the candidate was. He still has to be motivated to do the work.

In the past they used to pay higher salary levels more consistently.

However, they still do offer a fair number of higher-end contracts. Though pushing 30k as a first year there can be hard to do in most cases. But they really reward degrees from top-end schools. That can do it. So can a masters or a great resume etc...It is worth it to apply and see what you can get.

Where CDI really shines is for people planning to do 2+ years. If you are good in your first year you can get a very nice contract in your second and subsequent years. I have been there for over a year.

[KoreanAmbition]

Voyeur,

I'm curious about your opinions because you seem to have positive impressions of CDI.

Can you tell me how many hours per week you work? Do you do that every month?

What type of weekly schedule do you have? Do you just teach block shifts and then leave or are you there for time when you're not teaching as well?

What type of classes do you teach, and is there prep time required?

Do you have an office?

What is a day like when working there? What social things go on? How is the attitude around the office?


I appreciate you sharing some of your thoughts.

Cheers

[i4NI]

Oop's I read Voyeur's post initially like he wasn't working at CDI and making more elsewhere.

[Voyeur]

I have worked at 5 different locations at CDI - 4 corporate branches and one branchise.

They are ALWAYS block hours. I have always worked 24 to 30 hours a week. At corporate branches, I never had problems getting whatever hours I wanted in terms of numbers. But that may be different now. I have heard some say that it can be hard to get more than 24 on hourly. Some say it isn't. A lot depends on what they train you for, which branch, etc... OTOH if you are good you can get extra work easily - and often in by second term, and that is still true. Whether that be becoming a head instructor or other work on the side like grading essays, making tests, etc...

You have to be available to work 6 days. One weekend day will be off if you want it. Usually you will not work more than 5 though, even at 30 hours a week.

At corporate branches you need to be there 20 minutes before class. This is rigidly enforced, with penalties. So to be safe, if you don't walk to work, that means really showing up about 40 minutes before work. Prep varies wildly. It depends on what levels you teach and how much of a standout you want to be or how fast you think on your feet. They do some silly things, like make you fill in your own books. They think that a teacher should do all the lessons himself and then refer to the teacher's guide to make sure they got it right. No one sane does that. Everyone just copies the answers from the guide right away. You really should be able to teach from the guide. But you can't. So that feels like a time waster as you copy out a lot of stuff. But c'est la vie. Photocopies can take awhile too. Higher level classes can take longer to prep. And if you want to be an all-star and get promoted faster, you will probably go the extra mile in prep. OTOH someone who is a fast thinker can prep pretty minimally and do pretty well in the evaluations. As in all aspects of life, there are choices and consequences.

At some franchises you have to be there between an hour to 30 minutes ahead of time.

I have taught everything: low, high, reading, listening, etc.... Right now I teach a mish mash because I can teach anything and the schedule maker uses me as the catch-all to make the schedule work. At bigger branches you usually have less preps per week as they can fit you with more duplicate classes. At smaller branches you have more of a medley of classes. But it is less competitive and you can probably prep a little less and wing it a little more - only fair because you do have more preps.

Also, as classes repeat, so if you keep your prep and books you soon find yourself teaching a 3 month class you already have prepped for. This is great.

If you taught 30 hours a week, 6 hours a day 5 times a week (pretty standard) then you are looking at the mandatory ~30 minutes a day extra as your photocopy and eating food time. Prep itself may be another half-hour to an hour a day. And you probably average out to an extra hour of meetings, training sessions, etc... a week.

So 30 hours teaching

+2.5 hours copying / eating
+~3.5 hours prepping
+1 hour training

equals about 37 hours of total work a week on a 30 hour schedule. And you don't need to be at the office more than that. At a smaller branch where the copy machines are easier to access, or if you organize your time well and prep efficiently (or you wing it more) you could cut that down to maybe 33 hours a week of work.

Social things are entirely dependent on location. The big branches in the city are very social. 40+ teachers sometimes. Smaller franchises on the outskirts can be less so.

Nobody gets an office.

Probably many typos - rushed this out before work. Summer classes are on now. They suck hard. Mandatory sometimes, optional sometimes.

I've learned a lot from these threads. These days, I know CDI *can* be a great place to work. BUT I also think they need to do some work in terms of keeping their offer competitive. They may not always be keeping up with the times in terms of what other places are offering. The lack of holidays, hard work, etc... is very true. I used to be pretty sure that 30k + an hour and CDI was better than public schools or 99% of hogwons for 1st year teachers. Maybe that is still true. Maybe that number needs revising. To feel happy at CDI, IMO, you need to feel that you are being compensated more than other places all things factored in. It was built on the idea that you work harder than other jobs, but your effort to compensation ratio was the best going. CDI has lost sight of that main pillar in their success in many cases and so you do need to be careful. But with the right contract, and they are possible, it can still be great.

[Whistleblower]

[KoreanAmbition]

Voyeur,

Your post allows me to see a more positive side of CDI than I normally see.

In my opinion, if a 30-hour teaching week only works out to requiring an additional 7 hours of extra work, then I think that's a pretty decent situation. The block shifts are a good thing though, that's for sure.

The thing I don't like about CDI is how they don't offer the benefits that are expected in most other jobs. I don't see why they are trying to be different on purpose. They could easily enroll their employees in the medical and pension plans but they choose not to, and I'm guessing for financial reasons.

I think it is unethical to not enrol your workers in the medical plans, and therefore I have a loss of respect for them right off the bat. I don't have an issue with the lack of severance, because that is a financial decision that someone can use in their decision to work there.

I think that in general CDI would see an increase in their reputation if they started to compete on an even playing field with the other public educational institutions. I think they should compare "apples" with "apples" rather than trying to be different.

Lastly, Voyer,

you say you have been there for 5 years. You also say you are used by the schedule maker to be the "go to" guy when their are gaps that need to be filled.

What has been your pay increase through these 5 years?

If 30K per hour is seen as a good wage compared to other jobs, what were you getting the last 5 years? How long have you been getting 30K per hour?

I see others coming on this forum saying CDI offers them up to 33K per hour because they come from Ivey-league US schools.

Seems like bullsh*t that CDI pays YOU, a guy with 5 years of experience and someone that helps fill out their schedule, less than some newbie straight out of school.

Your salary should be 35K per hour with that much seniority in the same company.

Also, after 5 years of patronage and hard work, what have they done to your vacation time?

Have they said "Hey, Voyeur, thanks for all the hard work over the last 5 years, we're going to give you an extra week of vacation each year from now on?"

For the record, I get 14 weeks of vacation, and I'm a newbie with my university.

You seem like a good guy, and for some reason you actually talk positively of CDI. However, I personally think that if you've been there 5 years and they are still only paying you 30K per hour with no increase in vacation, but they're giving new guys from name-brand American unis a higher wage, then they treat you like shit.

You should go find a uni job and then work at CDI during your months of paid vacation.

Take a university gig that gives free housing, pension, severance and medical as well as 4-5 months vacation.

We already said in other discussions that a CDI 2.5 million salary job is close in value to a 30K hourly job at CDI.

Go find a university job that pays like 2.2 million per month for 20-25 hours per week, and that gives you like 4 months of vacation.

You can work your 30 hours per week at CDI on your vacation months and pull in your 3.5 million X 4 months = 14.0 million won.

Compare the results:

University job gives you:

-Less hours per week than CDI for most of your teaching weeks
-Equal hours to CDI for your vacation weeks at CDI
-Less money during each month of university teaching
-Free housing all year long
-Medical, pension and severance included
-14.0 million extra revenue during your vacation months, and you are GETTING free housing, and benefits during that time, which you don't normally get now


You have massive experience so you should have a good chance at finding that kind of job.

Work out the numbers, I think you'll find you're at the wrong job.

Just my opinion.

[Voyeur]

There is a history behind the hourly wage system. CDI was mostly for those on F4s back in the day. They won't enrol you in medical on hourly 'cause then they'd have to drop the salary to recoup the money. You can get all the benefits you want - just go on the monthly pay system.

You can take the monthly salary and then you can compare apples to apples. I'm not that up on the current state of other offers. I think CDI' compensation may be becoming increasingly unattractive in a lot of cases. I just said that many at CDI still do have very attractive compensation. So it all depends. It also depends on what you compare it to. I'm no longer sure what the benchmarks are for say first years.

I said I'd been there more than a year, I don't recall saying I'd been there 5 years. If I did, then I was drunk or something. I haven't been there that long. I make more than 35k an hour though - and I'm at a franchise now, so that kinda lowers the max salary they can afford or will give out. But then again, I teach more lower level classes than I would back at the company. And they are pretty easy.

Vacation can never be increased. Their system won't allow that. Only salary can be.

I'm sure there are some awesome university jobs out there. Hard to get though. I have no prior teaching experience, no CELTA, no MA, no degree in anything close to English, no TESOL, no teaching certification at home or any education degrees. Might be hard for me to get an awesome university job. Also, many aren't giving you the 4 months paid vacation free and clear anymore.

In the terms that I do teach 30 hours a week at CDI I will put in about 43 total working hours a week including some managerial duties and pull in well over 5 million. My apartment has 3 bedrooms and only costs me 600k. I don't have the best deal in town, but given my qualifications, I do alright at CDI.

[KoreanAmbition]

Voyeur,

My mistake. I reread up above and you did in fact say you have worked at 5 locations, and I made the error of reading that as 5 locations in 5 years.

So yes, it's my error.

Are you in Seoul?

A 3-bedroom apartment for 600,000 won seems like a really great price. I don't hear people saying they get that kind of apartment in decent areas of Seoul though.

I am curious where you are living.

Lastly,

Now I find out you make 35K. hehe That makes a difference especially when someone works a lot of hours. 120 hours at 35K = 4.2 million won.
So to get up to 5.0 million you must be putting an extra like 6 or 7 hours a week of other duties. I agree, based on your situation then obviously CDI is a good employer because you work your ass off and get compensated for it.

Am I reading correctly that you work an extra like 6 or 7 hours a week?

I think that extra 5000 won per hour from 30K to 35K makes a HUGE difference when talking about how good a CDI job is. Our previous discussion centered around the OP having a 30K hourly rate. My opinion of a CDI job changes as the salary goes up.

35K turns the minimum gaurantee of 96 hours into 3.36 million based on a 4-week month, which makes the "minimum" not as scary to deal with compared to salaries between 25K and 30K.

1000 won per hour is almost $1500 per year based on a 30-hour work week. Therefore, bumping your salary 5000 won bumps annual earnings up about $7500, and at that point I start to see a big difference between CDI and other jobs, and even CDI hourly and CDI salary.


Oh, and not to always disagree, but as an aside, vacation "can" be increased; they just have to implement it. CDI is a business just like any other. Your comment about they can "never" do it is nothing more than saying "they don't want to pay to do it". It can be done. It's just a money issue, and they don't want to pay it out. Samsung CAN give out more vacation, they just choose to give out like 5 days a month because they have more than enough engineers lined up if someone doesn't want to. Gotta love market leaders.