Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Big_Bird]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/sep/21/troy-davis-10-reasons

[northway]

There's a huge uproar about it. I'm actually surprised it's gotten as much press as it has, considering the state of the economy.

[Ya-ta Boy]

I also oppose the death penalty. However, I think it's important to remember murder is a state, not a federal, crime. Here are the states that do not have capital punishment, with the year that state abolished it in parentheses.

Alaska (1957)
Hawaii (1957)
Illinois (2011)
Iowa (1965)
Maine (1887)
Massachusetts (1984)
Michigan (1846) *Michigan has never had capital punishment
Minnesota (1911)
New Jersey (2007)
New Mexico (2009)
New York (2007)
North Dakota (1973)
Rhode Island (1984)
Vermont (1964)
West Virginia (1965)
Wisconsin (1853)

ALSO
- Dist. of Columbia (1981)

17 jurisdictions out of 51 don't have capital punishment.

For cultural context: The last executions in the United Kingdom, by hanging, took place in 1964, prior to capital punishment being abolished for murder (in 1969 in Great Britain and in 1973 in Northern Ireland). Although not applied since, the death penalty remained on the statute book for certain other offences until 1998...

A November 2009 television survey showed that 70% favoured reinstating the death penalty for at least one of the following crimes: armed robbery, rape, crimes related to paedophilia, terrorism, adult murder, child murder, child rape, treason, child abuse, or kidnapping. However, respondents only favoured capital punishment for adult murder, the polling question asked by other organisations such as Gallup, by small majorities or pluralities: overall, 51% favoured the death penalty for adult murder, while 56% in Wales did, 55% in Scotland, and only 49% in England.(Wikipedia)

I think it's quite difficult to get a legislative majority to vote against public majorities.

In the last week, the US Supreme Court granted stays twice and considered granting one to Troy Davis. It's clear something is afoot in the Court.

Two smart articles by Dahlia Lithwick:
The Slow Death of Certainty

In the debate over capital punishment, the desire for certainty is finally beginning to carry as much weight as the need for finality. Americans are asking not so much whether this particular prisoner should be killed as whether this whole capital system is fair...That question�why and how many of us are willing to tolerate error to achieve finality�is the real dispute here. And it's why, in the Davis case as in almost all death penalty cases, the two sides have talked past each other for so long.

http://www.slate.com/id/2304140/

A Killer Issue

In recent weeks, leading Republicans have made plain they don't believe in government-run health care (lo, even unto death). They don't believe in inoculating children again HPV (lo, even unto death). They don't believe in government-run disaster relief (ditto, re death), the minimum wage, Social Security, or the Federal Reserve. There is nothing, it seems�from protecting civil rights to safeguarding the environment�that big government bureaucracies can't foul up.

But there is one exception: killing people. These same Republicans who are dubious of government's ability to do anything right have an apparently bottomless faith in the capital-justice system. Everything is broken in America, they claim�except the machinery of death.

http://www.slate.com/id/2303922/

Having said all that, I find it very hard to object to the execution of Lawrence Russell Brewer who was executed Wednesday. (He was one of the three who dragged that man to death behind a pickup truck.)

[stilicho25]

The uproar bothers me. I have no idea if this guy was guilty, and the wikipedia article didn't make the case any more clear. However, I think liberals will use this opportunity to spread their awful anti-capital punishment propaganda. Luckily, most americans are much like me, and support for this is double the opposition, and hardcore support is triple hardcore opposition.

[Kuros]

I am strongly opposed to the death penalty. The state cannot be trusted to such a power, and neither do I trust a jury to judge whether a man should live or die. I remain confident that within several generations the US Supreme Court will declare the death penalty unconstitutional. But in the meantime . . .

[Ya-ta Boy]

[bigverne]

[Unposter]

This is truly a bizzare case and I don't understand why someone could have stepped in (let's say the governor and at least commute his sentence to life in prison).

Yesterday was a very, very sad day.

[northway]

[Kimbop]

There's a reason more than a dozen courts have looked at Davis' case and refused to overturn his death sentence. It's because he's guilty, plain and simple. Liberals refuse to acknowledge the facts, and what we're seeing is simple lobbying. Most of those calling for clemency were doing so not because there was any evidence, but simply because they opposed the death penalty.

Facts:

- He shot a cop in full view of dozens of witnesses in a Burger King parking lot, only a few hours after shooting at a passing car while exiting a party.

- After a two-week trial with 34 witnesses for the state and six witnesses for the defense, the jury of seven blacks and five whites took less than two hours to convict Davis of Officer Mark MacPhail's murder, as well as various other crimes. Two days later, the jury sentenced Davis to death.

- shell casings from both shootings that night matched.

- several of the eyewitnesses knew Davis personally.

- all witnesses -- every one of them -- said the shoopter had a white shirt. (Sylvester "Redd" Coles wore a yellow shirt..)

- three members of the Air Force saw the shooting from their van in the Burger King drive-in lane. The airman who saw events clearly enough to positively identify Davis as the shooter explained on cross-examination, "You don't forget someone that stands over and shoots someone." None of them recanted.

- Three recantations were from friends of Davis, making minor or completely unbelievable modifications to their trial testimony. For example, one said he was no longer sure he saw Davis shoot the cop, even though he was five feet away at the time. His remaining testimony still implicated Davis.

- One alleged recantation, from the vagrant's girlfriend (since deceased), wasn't a recantation at all, but rather reiterated all relevant parts of her trial testimony, which included a direct identification of Davis as the shooter.

- Only two of the seven alleged "recantations" (out of 34 witnesses) actually recanted anything of value -- and those two affidavits were discounted by the court because Davis refused to allow the witnesses to testify at the post-trial evidentiary hearing, even though one was seated right outside the courtroom, waiting to appear. The court specifically warned Davis that his refusal to call his only two genuinely recanting witnesses would make their affidavits worthless. But Davis still refused to call them, simply because their testimony would not have held up under cross-examination.

- legal shenanigans have kept taxpayers on the hook for Davis' room and board for the past two decades

More facts: A must-read:

[northway]

[stilicho25]

Thanks for putting that up Kimbop. As I figured, it was just liberals whining about a murderer getting what he deserved.

[Kuros]

[stilicho25]

Not sure what your point is. I respect the position that the government cannot be trusted with the power to kill, even if i disagree with it. I cannot respect the liberal position which seems to fixate on cop killers and lionize them.

[young_clinton]