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| Do you think there will ever be another civil war in The USA |
| Yes, it's possible. |
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41% |
[ 7 ] |
| No, never. |
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47% |
[ 8 ] |
| Not sure. |
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11% |
[ 2 ] |
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| Total Votes : 17 |
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deessell
Joined: 08 Jun 2005
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 Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 1:18 am Post subject: A second civil war? |
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....and if you voted, would you be prepared to fight in a civil war?
My reasons for this poll are related to supposed "time traveler" John Titor. John came back in time from 2036 into the year 2000. He said (2000) that in 2004/2005 there was a civil war in USA that lasted for 7 years.
I am interested what other posters think about this with particular reference to the current political climate in the USA. |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 2:02 am Post subject: |
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I used to be something of what many like to call a "liberal" when it came to gun-grabs, gov't registration and the like. By this i mean someone who may have thought along similar lines as to say Hillary Clinton 
Not any more.
Some estimates place close to 1,000,000 foreign ( i.e. UN ) troops covertly stationed in America. According to eye witnesses and high-level military this includes German, Russian, Lithuanian & ... uhhh ... Chinese.
Significant presence in Canda as well.
Big question is where are all the domestic soldiers ? Answer: ( Among other places ) Afghanistan & Iraq.
http://www.google.com/search?q=foreign+un+troops+american+soil&hl=en&lr=
Last edited by igotthisguitar on Mon Sep 26, 2005 2:16 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 2:13 am Post subject: |
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| igotthisguitar wrote: |
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This image comes right out of the anti-Clinton conspiracy people (they referred to him as "Billary" and they also spoke of "the People's Republic of California"), the right-wing survivalist gun freaks a la Timothy McVeigh who feared "the Brady Bill" and U.S. participation in the UN as a sign of some kind of ominous occupation of the United States that was yet to come...
As to the possibility (not probability) of a civil war in the U.S.: never say never. Very unlikely at the moment, however.
I am aware of senior officials in the military who are concerned that forcing the military to get involved in the antidrug war and immigration patrols, etc., will politicize the armed forces and open the way for a military coup...I've read articles on this in military journals, written by officers who preferred to say out of these things for these reasons. In any case, if I wanted to see where a breakdown of the constitution might come from, I'd keep my eye on that ball. |
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SuperFly
Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Location: In the doghouse
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 2:19 am Post subject: Re: A second civil war? |
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| Quote: |
"deessell
My reasons for this poll are related to supposed "time traveler" John Titor. John came back in time from 2036 into the year 2000. He said (2000) that in 2004/2005 there was a civil war in USA that lasted for 7 years.
I am interested what other posters think about this with particular reference to the current political climate in the USA. |
John Titor was revealed to be a fraud a long time ago bro. Don't be naive! |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 2:24 am Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| This image comes right out of the anti-Clinton conspiracy people (they referred to him as "Billary" and they also spoke of "the People's Republic of California"), the right-wing survivalist gun freaks a la Timothy McVeigh who feared "the Brady Bill" and U.S. participation in the UN as a sign of some kind of ominous occupation of the United States that was yet to come ... |
"Today Americans would be outraged if U.N. troops entered Los Angeles to restore order; tomorrow they will be grateful. This is especially true if they were told there was an outside threat from beyond, whether real or promulgated, that threatened our very existence. It is then that all peoples of the world will plead with world leaders to deliver them from this evil. The one thing every man fears is the unknown. When presented with this scenario, individual rights will be willingly relinquished for the guarantee of their well being granted to them by their world government."-- Henry Kissinger speaking at Evian, France, May 21, 1992 Bilderburgers meeting.
Unbeknownst to Kissinger, his speech was taped by a Swiss delegate to the meeting.
Conspiracy ? What conspiracy ?  |
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deessell
Joined: 08 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 2:51 am Post subject: Re: A second civil war? |
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| SuperFly wrote: |
| Quote: |
"deessell
My reasons for this poll are related to supposed "time traveler" John Titor. John came back in time from 2036 into the year 2000. He said (2000) that in 2004/2005 there was a civil war in USA that lasted for 7 years.
I am interested what other posters think about this with particular reference to the current political climate in the USA. |
John Titor was revealed to be a fraud a long time ago bro. Don't be naive! |
Aside from Titor being a fraud, I am more interested in civil war and whether anyone thinks that the citizens of USA (or any western country) would be able to instigate a civil war, with changes to gun laws, loss of liberty and freedoms, it would be a harder prospect. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 3:17 am Post subject: Re: A second civil war? |
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| deessell wrote: |
| I am more interested in civil war and whether anyone thinks that the citizens of USA (or any western country) would be able to instigate a civil war, with changes to gun laws, loss of liberty and freedoms, it would be a harder prospect. |
The gun ownership advocates don't really get the point that handguns, shotguns, and even assault rifles won't do too much against a govt armed with tanks, rockets, jets, tactical nukes, and also armed with comprehensive information databases and infrared and other satellite technology and intelligence means available to its forces.
In any case, if there were going to be a civil war in the U.S. it certainly would have occured between 1967-1975, at the height of the Civil Rights/Vietnam/Watergate issues that tore the place asunder, so to speak.
As tense as things are today, we're not anywhere near where they were at that time. |
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Tiger Beer
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 3:23 am Post subject: Re: A second civil war? |
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| deessell wrote: |
| SuperFly wrote: |
| Quote: |
"deessell
My reasons for this poll are related to supposed "time traveler" John Titor. John came back in time from 2036 into the year 2000. He said (2000) that in 2004/2005 there was a civil war in USA that lasted for 7 years.
I am interested what other posters think about this with particular reference to the current political climate in the USA. |
John Titor was revealed to be a fraud a long time ago bro. Don't be naive! |
Aside from Titor being a fraud, I am more interested in civil war and whether anyone thinks that the citizens of USA (or any western country) would be able to instigate a civil war, with changes to gun laws, loss of liberty and freedoms, it would be a harder prospect. |
What would the civil war be about?
I definetely don't see one.. for one, the 'liberals' or 'democrats' aren't the fighting types.. and they are the underrepresented right now outside the walls of power. If they wanted to fight, I guess you could make an argument that most 'conservatives' or 'republicans' were being sent and dying in Iraq. so therefore the more heady educated advanced degree 'liberal' or 'democrat' has a higher 'fighting chance'.. but.. well.. anyhow.. to make a long paragaph short.. -- No, I don't see an even remote chance of a civil war happening in the US anytime soon. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 3:25 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, a second civil war...right after the States has its second war of independence...  |
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Leslie Cheswyck
Joined: 31 May 2003
Location: University of Western Chile
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 3:32 am Post subject: |
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| Sorry, Gophe, America was not going to have a civil war during the Brady Bunch years. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 3:57 am Post subject: |
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| Leslie Cheswyck wrote: |
| Sorry, Gophe, America was not going to have a civil war during the Brady Bunch years. |
Didn't say it happened. Obviously we stayed with the Constitution, and Congress threw Nixon out, and he left on cue.
One professor, a rather radical dude, once told me that he saw evidence in the National Archives that indicated that Haig, Nixon's last chief of staff, proposed a military coup just before Nixon resigned. Stone, another radical director/conspiracy nut, seems to reference this in his film Nixon. Other professors say that it's absurd, that such information would have been published by now, especially by Haig's political opponents when he ran for president in '88, and I agree.
Things were extremely tense in those Brady Bunch years. When Hersh broke his story about Operation CHAOS, CIA's supposed domestic operations, in late '74, he also broke a lesser known story about a supposed Pentagon surveillance operation targeted against the White House (it's in New York Times, a front-page story, on 22 or 23 December 1974). Also, McNamara's memoirs make repeated reference to the Joint Chiefs of Staff's strong wishes to take control over all aspects of the war, and he says they even tried to force the LBJ Administration to use nukes against Hanoi at several points.
So I think we had all of the pieces in place for a military coup and/or a civil war at that time. It's just that the Constitution held against that stress.
Like everything, however, there is certainly a "right" combination of factors that would cause it to break down.
I still think it's highly unlikey that we are anywhere near a possible civil war right now. The idea is fit only for a novel or TV miniseries, or an Igotthisguitar post... |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 4:26 am Post subject: |
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| Should the US supreme court ever strike down the marriage law, allowing homosexuals to marry, I would think this might touch off a civil war, or at least a dissolution of the union. |
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Tiger Beer
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 5:23 am Post subject: |
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While the people in the US do seem incredibly different in their beliefs and two governments does sound GREAT (to probably almost every citizen).. I just don't personally see any conceivably possible way of that actually happening. An actual civil war in particular seems extremely unlikely.
Speaking of 'Civil War'.. I just downloaded the first episode of Ken Burn's documentary on the US Civil War back in the 1860s.. can't wait to start watching it. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Speaking of 'Civil War'.. I just downloaded the first episode of Ken Burn's documentary on the US Civil War back in the 1860s.. can't wait to start watching it. |
Mr. Tiger, you are in for a treat. Turn off your phone and lock the door. Down load the rest of the series, sit back and enjoy. It's the way TV was always meant to be. Listen to the accents of the actors reading the lines. They were partly chosen because their home state is the same as the person who wrote the original lines.
The general topic of the thread:
I think it was Palmer who wrote about the 'revolution of rising expectations'. By this he meant things started to change, then the reforms faltered. It is the frustration that provides the spark. Granted, there has to be a group of people already organized and ready to inherit power.
Scenario: The religious right continues to make advances in establishing its view of law in the state and federal legislatures and judiciaries. At that point an election is nearing. A scandal (or something) breaks and the conservative candidates lose big time.
I can see a demonstration/counter-demonstration getting out of hand. Blood on the streets. Passions rise and more demonstrations occur. Politicians start taking sides. Civil order breaking down. Governors sending in the National Guard to side with opposing sides in different states.
With the radicalization of the religious right, I can see a civil war breaking out. Not like before, over states rights, slavery and sectionalism, North against South. I think we narrowly escaped one in November 2000. What if Gore had chosen to contest the Supreme Court decision? |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| What if Gore had chosen to contest the Supreme Court decision? |
What forces would have stood with Gore? |
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