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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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 Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 11:33 pm Post subject: Logic, get some. |
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It seems we have a few people on this board who wouldn't know what logic is if it bit them in the butt. I have seen many people say A is B therefore B is A and have been called on it. It doesn't work that way.
Consider the larger orange circle is "All real numbers". From this you can see that...
1)All prime numbers are real numbers.
2)All real numbers are not prime numbers.
Another example...
1)All apples are fruits.
2)All fruits are not apples.
I know this may seem condescending, but I have seen this argument atleast 3 times since last week. |
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Hater Depot
Joined: 29 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:41 am Post subject: |
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| On the other hand, I recently saw a guy on Wikipedia argue that A = B and B = C does not imply that A = C. |
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Satori
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Above it all
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:00 am Post subject: |
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| I wouldn`t be jumping on a soap box just yet. You`re reasonably fast and loose with logic yourself young pilgrim. |
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 2:51 am Post subject: |
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| Satori wrote: |
| I wouldn`t be jumping on a soap box just yet. You`re reasonably fast and loose with logic yourself young pilgrim. |
If you are talking about the last fight we had, no I wasn't. I just wasn't going to go into it with you. You did prove me wrong, but there was nothing wrong with my logic. Just my hypothesis which was wrong. That is how the entire scientific community works. People always make mistakes, as I said I did. You logic your way through it and see if it is true or false. By the way, your post again is quite confrontational, don't you think? You seem to be nothing more than a troll looking for a fight. |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 4:51 am Post subject: ... |
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On another note,
I once found a stand-alone online logic course that took you through the fundamentals quite nicely.
Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find it again.
Can anyone provide a link to such a thing?
And I do mean one of just pure logic. There is one out there for atheists.
And, from Kyobo, I bought an Introduction to Logic book that was made by Christians for Christians to argue Christianity. I keep that as an interesting curio.
Moreover, I would argue that every core university-level curriculum should require a logic course for all undergraduates. Is that so wrong? Wouldn't we produce better graduates the world over if such a thing were in place? That would be SO logical.
Would it not? |
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 5:04 am Post subject: Re: ... |
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| Nowhere Man wrote: |
On another note,
I once found a stand-alone online logic course that took you through the fundamentals quite nicely.
Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find it again.
Can anyone provide a link to such a thing?
And I do mean one of just pure logic. There is one out there for atheists.
And, from Kyobo, I bought an Introduction to Logic book that was made by Christians for Christians to argue Christianity. I keep that as an interesting curio.
Moreover, I would argue that every core university-level curriculum should require a logic course for all undergraduates. Is that so wrong? Wouldn't we produce better graduates the world over if such a thing were in place? That would be SO logical.
Would it not? |
I totally agree ofcourse 
I would love to see the Christian logic book. |
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VanIslander
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Location: Geoje, Hadong, Tongyeong,... now in a small coastal island town outside Gyeongsangnamdo!
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 5:54 am Post subject: |
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My master's degree thesis is in Logic, particularly a subfield called Informal Logic. I've taken several courses in Logic, and have even co-taught Intro. courses for university undergrads, and let me say that while a little formal logic is a good thing, too much (reliance on it in everyday discourse) can be as damaging as having none at all.
| Hater Depot wrote: |
| On the other hand, I recently saw a guy on Wikipedia argue that A = B and B = C does not imply that A = C. |
That's called the logical rule of transitivity and - while it holds in MOST systems of formal logic (except in some deviant logics used in science and math), that logical rule does NOT hold in the informal logic of everyday arguments.
A can equal B (in one respect or one context), B equal C (in another respect or another context), and yet A not equal C. Arguments in everyday language don't fit nicely into syllogisms or other logical forms.
If one wishes to appeal to logic in argumentation one should cite evidence of a specific logical fallacy (like false analogy) - or better: argue directly against a claim or argument itself - rather than another's general deficiency (because that'd commit an ad hominen, which'd be a fallacy if used to discredit the argument, but valid sometimes if used against the arguer only).
Last edited by VanIslander on Wed Feb 08, 2006 5:57 am; edited 1 time in total |
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joe_doufu
Joined: 09 May 2005
Location: Elsewhere
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 5:55 am Post subject: Re: Logic, get some. |
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| laogaiguk wrote: |
1)All apples are fruits.
2)All fruits are not apples. |
Are you on crack? Some fruits are in fact apples. |
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VanIslander
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Location: Geoje, Hadong, Tongyeong,... now in a small coastal island town outside Gyeongsangnamdo!
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:02 am Post subject: Re: Logic, get some. |
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| joe_doufu wrote: |
| laogaiguk wrote: |
| ...All fruits are not apples. |
Are you on crack? Some fruits are in fact apples. |
This is why you're nicknamed joe_doofus 
(half joking)
Of course, the claim is patently false. You've missed the point. |
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joe_doufu
Joined: 09 May 2005
Location: Elsewhere
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:56 am Post subject: Re: Logic, get some. |
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| VanIslander wrote: |
| joe_doufu wrote: |
| laogaiguk wrote: |
| ...All fruits are not apples. |
Are you on crack? Some fruits are in fact apples. |
Of course, the claim is patently false. |
Fine then, I'm glad we agree that the claim "all fruits are not apples" is false. |
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Satori
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Above it all
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 7:06 am Post subject: |
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| laogaiguk wrote: |
| Satori wrote: |
| I wouldn`t be jumping on a soap box just yet. You`re reasonably fast and loose with logic yourself young pilgrim. |
You logic your way through it and see if it is true or false. |
This is a fragment from one of your posts, that we didn't even get on to addressing. You were stating your reasons for why people would not go into the profession of thier qualification after uni. One of them was because they...
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| are not cut out for the professional world (and should not be teaching, even in a hagwon) |
And that, my friend, is not logical. Each job has a unique skill set and personality requirements. There are people who would not, and could not have a career in one of the professions back home, who make excellent esl teachers, and I know several of them. |
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joe_doufu
Joined: 09 May 2005
Location: Elsewhere
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 7:16 am Post subject: |
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| Satori wrote: |
You were stating your reasons for why people would not go into the profession of thier qualification after uni. One of them was because they...
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| are not cut out for the professional world (and should not be teaching, even in a hagwon) |
And that, my friend, is not logical. Each job has a unique skill set and personality requirements. |
Both of you were arguing your opinions. Neither of you stated your assumptions/postulates clearly enough that any logical process could be applied. Satori, you might say the OP was "wrong" but you are "wrong" to say that his logic was flawed.
Here's a logical version:
postulate 1: some people are not cut out for the professional world
postulate 2: being "not cut out for" a type of work prevents one from performing that type of work
conclusion: some people do not go to work in the professional world because they are "not cut out for" it.
(logical but postulates are dubious and so vague as to be meaningless) |
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Tiberious aka Sparkles
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Location: I'm one cool cat!
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 7:23 am Post subject: |
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Joe, how do I get bed head like yours?
Sparkles*_* |
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joe_doufu
Joined: 09 May 2005
Location: Elsewhere
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 7:24 am Post subject: |
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| Tiberious aka Sparkles wrote: |
| Joe, how do I get bed head like yours? |
Um, I'll take the "bed head" in my avatar over the "pillow-shaped head" in yours! |
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Tiberious aka Sparkles
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Location: I'm one cool cat!
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 7:27 am Post subject: Re: Logic, get some. |
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| laogaiguk wrote: |
It seems we have a few people on this board who wouldn't know what logic is if it bit them in the butt. I have seen many people say A is B therefore B is A and have been called on it. It doesn't work that way.
Consider the larger orange circle is "All real numbers". From this you can see that...
1)All prime numbers are real numbers.
2)All real numbers are not prime numbers.
Another example...
1)All apples are fruits.
2)All fruits are not apples.
I know this may seem condescending, but I have seen this argument atleast 3 times since last week. |
This post in itself is illogical, as anyone with a brain knows that trying to prove a point on the Internet is as futile as trying to comb your pubes straight. The irony of this post isn't lost on me, by the way.
Sparkles*_* |
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