Site Search:
 
Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums Forum Index Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

past perfect or simple past?

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Help Center
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
sabrinak



Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 146

PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:27 pm    Post subject: past perfect or simple past? Reply with quote

Hello,


Please look at this:


"One hundred and fifty years ago many Americans owned slaves. The slaves were black people who were captured in Africa."


Here I think 'were captured' should be 'had been captured' because it happened earlier than 'were black people.'

What do you think? Thank you so much.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
lotus



Joined: 25 Jan 2004
Posts: 862

PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Sabrinak,

Either sentence would be ok.

We often say "the slaves were captured."
We also say "the criminals had been captured by the police."

When criminals are captured, it is more an active search and seizure of individuals. Whereas, when slaves are captured, it is more a round-up of people.

It is true that many slaves were actually captured from their escape. And, when they returned, they were put back in captivity.

But the context of the sentence conveys more of the round-up of slaves during that period. So, I think the original sentence sounds more appropriate.


--lotus
_________________
War does not make one great --Yoda
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lorikeet



Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 1877
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 5:04 pm    Post subject: Re: past perfect or simple past? Reply with quote

sabrinak wrote:
Hello,


Please look at this:


"One hundred and fifty years ago many Americans owned slaves. The slaves were black people who were captured in Africa."


Here I think 'were captured' should be 'had been captured' because it happened earlier than 'were black people.'

What do you think? Thank you so much.


I also would accept either sentence, but for different reasons. I think the slaves were free, and then captured. The capturing occured before the enslavement. Therefore, "The slaves were black people who had been captured in Africa." sounds fine to me regardless of how they were captured, or whether it was one time or more.

I think in American English at least, the use of the past perfect is slowly disappearing from the language and although I prefer it sometimes, I find that it may be a function of my age.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
lotus



Joined: 25 Jan 2004
Posts: 862

PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

A better way to say it might be:

A hundred and fifty years ago, many Americans owned slaves. These slaves were black people who were captured in Africa.

Though this may ring true, it is known that slavery had already existed in Africa at that time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_modern_Africa
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_slave_trade#Source_of_slaves

This does not absolve the United States of its immoral and illegal behavior and standing in history. In fact, if anything, the United States bore even more guilt because it knew and was aware of the human suffering associated with indentured servitude and slavery, yet still participated in the slave trades. It committed even worse crimes by actually killing (lynching) some of its slaves.


--lotus
_________________
War does not make one great --Yoda
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Help Center All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Dave's ESL Cafe is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Banner Advertising | Bookstore / Alta Books | FAQs | Articles | Interview with Dave
Copyright © 2018 Dave's ESL Cafe | All Rights Reserved | Contact Dave's ESL Cafe | Site Map

Teachers College, Columbia University: Train to Teach English Here or Abroad
SIT
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group