Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums

[ShoHiro]

Dear teacher,

I have two questions abuot the use of secondary predicates. The following sentences are acceptable ones (some native English speakers do not permit the following, though):

(1) a. Mary bought the chair broken.
b. Mary bought these stocks over-the-counter.

In (1b), over-the-counter means that business shares are ones that do not appear on an official stock exchange list. Then, how about the following?

(2) a. Mary gave Tom the chair broken.
b. Mary gave Tom these stocks over-the-counter.

Is (2b) acceptable?

ShoHiro

[tyreless]

[ShoHiro]

Dear tyreless,

Thank you veru much for answering my question.

Yes. I asked a similar question, but what I would like to know is different from the one I had asked before.

I found the term "over-the-counter stocks" in some dictionaries. For example, you can see the following item in Collins COBUILD English Dictionary for Advanced Learner:

over-the-counter: shares are bought and sold directly rather than on a stock change.

By the way, I would like to ask other questions. The sentences of (1) are acceptable.

(1) a. The comedian performs stand-up.
b. The salesman visited all the houses in this town door-to-door.

How about (2a, b)?

(2) a. The comedian plays the guitar stand-up.
b. The small child broke the window of each house door-to-door.

ShoHiro


[/i]

[tyreless]

Hello ShoHiro please accept my apologies but I think I allowed myself to get sidetracked by the expression over-the-counter and missed the part of your question about secondary predicates.

In "Mary bought the chair broken", broken is a participle that acts as an adjective to chair. Adjectives can go before or after the noun. Normally they go before the noun. When they go after the noun they are �used to define or identify the noun in the same way as we use identifying relative clauses.� (M. Swan; Practical English Usage).
He gives following example:
We couldn�t agree on any of the problems discussed.
(=�the problems that were discussed.)
(NOT �*the discussed problems.*)
Personally I feel that the above explanation doesn�t really help in our case because both "Mary bought a/the broken chair" or "Mary bought the chair broken" are perfectly feasible and grammatically correct. The do have different meanings though. Compare:
"Mary bought a broken chair, not an repaired one."
"Mary bought the chair broken! She can�t now pretend it was OK and demand her money back."
By moving the adjective from it�s normal pre-noun position to a post-noun position at the end of the sentence , we also move it to a position where it gets more attention, where it is focused on. This effect is common in English and other European languages.

Something similar takes place in the case of over-the-counter.
In the example "Mary bought these stocks over-the-counter" and "Mary gave Tom these stocks over-the-counter" over-the-counter is an adverb of manner refering back to bought. Adverbs of manner tend to go at the end of a sentence.

I looked up over the counter stocks in the Oxford Advanced Learners Dictionary and it doesn�t list it, so I can�t really comment on that.

In the examples
1. The comedian performs stand-up.
2 The salesman visited all the houses in this town door-to-door.
3. The comedian plays the guitar stand-up.
4. The small child broke the window of each house door-to-door.

It is a similar case again, with stand-up comedian and door-to-door salesman being collocations that can�t just be broken up, even though the expression would still be understood.
Sentence 3) could be reformulated as "The comedian performs the guitar standing up." Sentence 4) could be reformulated as "The small child broke the window(s) of each house one after the other."

I wouldn't regard any of the examples above as predicates but adjectives and adverbs respectively.

All clear?
If not let me know.
David
_________________
Consume less - live more

[tyreless]

Hello ShoHiro here's to you. I finally did find "over-the-counter stocks" in the Random House Dictionary, 2nd edition 1983
Over-the-counter stocks. (Abbreviation: OTC) unlisted or not part of an organized securities exchange.
David
_________________
Consume less - live more