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simplyblessedwithlove
Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 125
Location: bay area, california
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 Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:24 am Post subject: Do you know India? |
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Last month, my grandma and aunt went to India with a group of Buddhist people for several weeks. When they were back they had bunch of stories, pictures, and video clips to show us. I have seen the video clips and pictures online, so I wasn't surprised. The stories, on the other hand, shocked the heck outta me. As you know the view from an outsider, especially tourists, is sometime different than that of those who are natives. Therefore, anyone who lives in India or knows something about India, please confirm the accuracy of the stories.
1- My aunt said that India shows a very clear distinction of social status. Poor people, like homeless, are not allowed in restaurants. Even if they are, they won't be served with the same manner.
2- Some families are too poor that they have to eat cow's dried manure while others use it to cover the holes on their houses' walls or roof.
3- Indians are smart and they are not lazy, but they don't push themselves over the limit if they think they make enough for the day. A taxi driver would rather take a siesta than drive you to some place if he thinks he's made enough for that day.
4- The governmental system is extremely slow. They wouldn't work any faster even if they were bribed to do so.
Many and many more stories but let me stop here. I'll tell more when I have time.
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Len T. |
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Anuradha Chepur
Joined: 20 May 2006
Posts: 933
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 4:31 am Post subject: Re: Do you know India? |
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| 1- My aunt said that India shows a very clear distinction of social status. Poor people, like homeless, are not allowed in restaurants. Even if they are, they won't be served with the same manner. |
I don't think this is true. I'd say the poor can't afford themselves in restaurants, in the first place. If such attitude has been really witnessed, then it could be the lousy attitude of that particular person who was attending.
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| 2- Some families are too poor that they have to eat cow's dried manure while others use it to cover the holes on their houses' walls or roof. |
I completely disagree that the poor eat cow manure! It's too stretched.
Cow dung/manure is considered as a disinfectant, mosquito repellant etc in the countryside, and it is likely that people there cover holes of roofs with it. For that reason, it is also used to coat the ground in the front/back of houses.
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| 3- Indians are smart and they are not lazy, but they don't push themselves over the limit if they think they make enough for the day. A taxi driver would rather take a siesta than drive you to some place if he thinks he's made enough for that day. |
That should be true. (Yesterday I was in a taxi, I was doing some backseat driving, the driver tried to defend himself by saying he's been driving a taxi for the last 27 years. I wondered why he is still doing the same thing even after 27 years. He could have worked hard, upgraded to something better).
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| 4- The governmental system is extremely slow. They wouldn't work any faster even if they were bribed to do so. |
This is 100% correct!
Any more questions? |
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simplyblessedwithlove
Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 125
Location: bay area, california
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:37 pm Post subject: Re: Do you know India? |
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| Anuradha Chepur wrote: |
| Quote: |
| 1- My aunt said that India shows a very clear distinction of social status. Poor people, like homeless, are not allowed in restaurants. Even if they are, they won't be served with the same manner. |
I don't think this is true. I'd say the poor can't afford themselves in restaurants, in the first place. If such attitude has been really witnessed, then it could be the lousy attitude of that particular person who was attending.
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My aunt was walking around the city, and there was one little boy came up to her and asked her if she could buy him some books for school. She thought it was really weird yet endearing at the same time since he didn't beg her for money. She said okay. He then took her to one bookstore. They bought books and materials for school. While they were in the bookstore, some boys came to her and asked her if she could help them also because they went to the same school; they were classmate. They even showed her the list of school materials the school asked them to buy. She helped them with books and then some uniforms.
After that, she took them to a restaurant. At first the boys didn't wanna go inside. They said they were not allowed to go in alone. Thus, she held their hands to take them inside. After seated, one of the boys asked the waiter for a menu. The waiter just walked away. She was disturbed by his attitude. She called him back and asked, "may I please have the menu?" He said yes and went to take the menu.
Those boys are homeless. Is that the reason why they're not allowed in the restaurant because they're afraid homeless would beg customers for money? 
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Len T. |
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simplyblessedwithlove
Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 125
Location: bay area, california
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Anuradha Chepur wrote: |
I completely disagree that the poor eat cow manure! It's too stretched.
Cow dung/manure is considered as a disinfectant, mosquito repellant etc in the countryside, and it is likely that people there cover holes of roofs with it. For that reason, it is also used to coat the ground in the front/back of houses.
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That's what I thought. I asked her if there was any way she was mistaken. I mean, I've heard of people who were starved enough that they had to eat roots and/or tree barks to survive but manure? However, she told me that was what she saw. They molded the manure into big meatball shaped sizes. Then they flattened them and let them dry on the ground. They would use the dried manure with their food after they're dried. I don't know what the heck she saw, but I think it was not cow manure. I wonder what she saw...
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Len T. |
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simplyblessedwithlove
Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 125
Location: bay area, california
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:52 pm Post subject: Re: Do you know India? |
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| Anuradha Chepur wrote: |
Any more questions?
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Is making 3000 rupee/month good enough to live comfortable for a month?
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Len T. |
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Anuradha Chepur
Joined: 20 May 2006
Posts: 933
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:54 am Post subject: |
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| Those boys are homeless. Is that the reason why they're not allowed in the restaurant because they're afraid homeless would beg customers for money? |
Probably, a restaurant is a commercial place and not a charity home to cater to poor people.
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| They molded the manure into big meatball shaped sizes. Then they flattened them and let them dry on the ground. They would use the dried manure with their food after they're dried. |
Please, that dried stuff is used as fuel along with wood in the stoves. (Just as we use LPG or electricity, that doesn't mean we eat LPG/electricity  ).
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| I've heard of people who were starved enough that they had to eat roots and/or tree barks to survive |
I've never heard.
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| Is making 3000 rupee/month good enough to live comfortable for a month? |
It depends. A lot of poor people might manage in 3000. For me, that's not enough to cover my monthly transport expenses. We need atleast 20,000 - 30,000 rupees a month to live a comfortable life.
For the richest, 20,000 - 30,000 may not be enough even for their monthly petrol expenses.
Societies are stratified everywhere. The difference is more visisble in developing countries. |
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Bob S.
Joined: 29 Apr 2004
Posts: 1767
Location: So. Cal
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Anuradha Chepur wrote: |
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| I've heard of people who were starved enough that they had to eat roots and/or tree barks to survive |
I've never heard. |
What's wrong with eating roots? Many kinds are very tasty. And there are some tree barks that make delicious food spices. |
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Anuradha Chepur
Joined: 20 May 2006
Posts: 933
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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| What's wrong with eating roots? Many kinds are very tasty. And there are some tree barks that make delicious food spices. |
Yeah, that's fine.
I meant I haven't heard about it in the sense in which it was being referred to: for instance, hungry boys biting into the bark of some road side tree, or pulling out wild shrubs and gobbling their roots.
There are a lot of tasty edible roots, some of them are seasonal and treated as delicacies. I presume some tourist saw people eating them and the rest is misconception. I find it amusing how these misconceptions get generated and circulated. (no offence to anyone, please continue asking questions) |
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ukguy
Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 13
Location: england
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| Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 9:24 am Post subject: |
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   India often shocks people due to the poverty. No, people dont eat *beep*, but they are very very very poor, and officials are exceptionally slow, but scams..ie relieving Westerners of large sums of money by trickery..are by far the worst problem for me in India.  
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Anuradha Chepur
Joined: 20 May 2006
Posts: 933
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| Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 3:16 am Post subject: |
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| India often shocks people due to the poverty. No, people dont eat *beep*, but they are very very very poor, and officials are exceptionally slow, but scams..ie relieving Westerners of large sums of money by trickery..are by far the worst problem for me in India. |
I appreciate your feedback and regret the inconvenience you were caused.
However there are a couple of things there.
Firstly I don't think we should not hold the developing countries to the standards of the developed ones. If I were to visit a developed country, I would expect to find few or no poor people there; and if I visit a country lesser developed that India, I would expect to find more poor there.
Secondly, tourists whether western or not (even native tourists) will be taken for a ride by some local people not just in India. You should be cautious.
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| "I have travelled the length and breadth of India, and I have not seen one person who is a beggar, who is a thief in this country, such high moral values, people of such caliber, that I do not think we would ever conquer this country, unless we break the very backbone of this nation which is her spiritual and cultural heritage, and, therefore I propose that we replace her old and ancient education system, her culture, for if Indians think that all that is foreign and English is good and greater than their own, they will lose their self esteem, their native culture and they will become what we want them, a truly dominated nation." |
is what Macaulay had said in the British parliament on 2 February, 1835.
It is interesting to read two completely contrasting opinions from two different people from UK, of course, two centuries apart. |
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icecube
Joined: 17 Nov 2008
Posts: 7
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 6:34 am Post subject: |
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From what I heard from Indian co-workers, you have to "spin" in order to survive in India. There is no social safety net in India, no unemployment benefits, no disability and only the [retired] government employees get pensions.
(There is though a preferential treatment of Shudras (the lowest caste) when it comes to university admission)
Obviously, with such realities, some people would have very serious difficulties just trying to survive. The gap between rich and poor is hard to imagine for a person who grew up in the West.
However, it would be misleading to try to compare Indian reality with that of the West. It is just a different approach to managing social affairs. Those who work hard in India live well. Taxes are low and you can keep much more of your income, as compared to the West. With this regard it is like Hong Kong. But you have to pay pretty much for everything, it is a user-fee system, including sickness care.
To illustrate that it is misleading to make conclusions from several isolated facts of life in a country, consider this - in Russia, (communist, as well as today), old people get pensions, but there is also an entire class of slaves, conscripted soldiers who live in conditions that are akin to prison, in utmost deprivations and lawlessnes.
Students in communist Russia were also being used as slave labor in agriculture (high school, college and university). In the South Asian region (close to Pakistan and Afghanistan) children were working as slaves on cotton fields till December EVERY YEAR, with only a token pay, maybe just enough to buy a loaf of bread per day (food, of course, was provided). In northern areas they were working as slaves till October, also in agriculture. Cotton fields are heavily sprayed with chemicals, so you can imagine the health effects of that!
In communist Russia university students were routinely being conscripted for various jobs, including construction, with no safety equipment whatsoever (and no pay). And, of course, every September they had to work in the fields
So one way or the other, somebody has to suffer. In India those suffer who are unable or unwilling to build a productive process, that would lead to personal development and a financially secure life.
India is at the cutting edge of technology in many areas, in October 2008 Indian rocket was launched to the Moon. This means many people work in the area of technology. And, of course, they also work hard to get university education. Those who do not have the aptitudes can join the Army, which is a professional army (no conscripts), and they will have a financially secure life and pensions when they retire
It is similar to US, if one has no money for education, he can get ROTC loan, albeit not for all majors
In Russia (communist and now) education was and is without direct payment, but students have to work as slaves for a period of time each year, as well as have no say in educational affairs and to endure the most idiotic system of education (in communist Russia) (but that is another subject )
Here is a link to the horrors of service in the Russian army
http://www.india300.com/slaves.htm
and this one has a pic of people digging on a garbage dump
http://www.india300.com/sample370.htm
Regards: Icecube |
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pdolivas
Joined: 21 Oct 2008
Posts: 21
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| Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 9:39 am Post subject: India |
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| Given the caste system in India, I would not be surprised that people are excluded from public places. For us westerners, it is hard to understand such a system where your family heritage dictates your path in life. |
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hobo78
Joined: 19 Apr 2008
Posts: 29
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| Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 11:58 am Post subject: |
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That's interesting for me. It looks like a sight inside. I knew many people are very poor in India, but I didn't know they use dead cows as food.
I'm not from a rich country too.
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Do you need a professional designed website or graphics for your business, for your girlfriend or for the dog you love? Worry no more! One look is worth a thousand words http://fastlanewebdesign.com/ |
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hobo78
Joined: 19 Apr 2008
Posts: 29
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| Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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| icecube wrote: |
From what I heard from Indian co-workers, you have to "spin" in order to survive in India. There is no social safety net in India, no unemployment benefits, no disability and only the [retired] government employees get pensions.
(There is though a preferential treatment of Shudras (the lowest caste) when it comes to university admission)
Obviously, with such realities, some people would have very serious difficulties just trying to survive. The gap between rich and poor is hard to imagine for a person who grew up in the West.
However, it would be misleading to try to compare Indian reality with that of the West. It is just a different approach to managing social affairs. Those who work hard in India live well. Taxes are low and you can keep much more of your income, as compared to the West. With this regard it is like Hong Kong. But you have to pay pretty much for everything, it is a user-fee system, including sickness care.
To illustrate that it is misleading to make conclusions from several isolated facts of life in a country, consider this - in Russia, (communist, as well as today), old people get pensions, but there is also an entire class of slaves, conscripted soldiers who live in conditions that are akin to prison, in utmost deprivations and lawlessnes.
Students in communist Russia were also being used as slave labor in agriculture (high school, college and university). In the South Asian region (close to Pakistan and Afghanistan) children were working as slaves on cotton fields till December EVERY YEAR, with only a token pay, maybe just enough to buy a loaf of bread per day (food, of course, was provided). In northern areas they were working as slaves till October, also in agriculture. Cotton fields are heavily sprayed with chemicals, so you can imagine the health effects of that!
In communist Russia university students were routinely being conscripted for various jobs, including construction, with no safety equipment whatsoever (and no pay). And, of course, every September they had to work in the fields
So one way or the other, somebody has to suffer. In India those suffer who are unable or unwilling to build a productive process, that would lead to personal development and a financially secure life.
India is at the cutting edge of technology in many areas, in October 2008 Indian rocket was launched to the Moon. This means many people work in the area of technology. And, of course, they also work hard to get university education. Those who do not have the aptitudes can join the Army, which is a professional army (no conscripts), and they will have a financially secure life and pensions when they retire
It is similar to US, if one has no money for education, he can get ROTC loan, albeit not for all majors
In Russia (communist and now) education was and is without direct payment, but students have to work as slaves for a period of time each year, as well as have no say in educational affairs and to endure the most idiotic system of education (in communist Russia) (but that is another subject )
Here is a link to the horrors of service in the Russian army
http://www.india300.com/slaves.htm
and this one has a pic of people digging on a garbage dump
http://www.india300.com/sample370.htm
Regards: Icecube |
Did you live in former USSR? Just interesting.
_________________
Do you need a professional designed website or graphics for your business, for your girlfriend or for the dog you love? Worry no more! One look is worth a thousand words http://fastlanewebdesign.com/ |
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