Site Search:
 
Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums Forum Index Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

fewer + countable nouns / less + uncountable nouns

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Help Center
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
monicashen



Joined: 27 Apr 2009
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 7:40 pm    Post subject: fewer + countable nouns / less + uncountable nouns Reply with quote

I eat ___ vegetables and ____ meat than I did last year.
That's why you're getting fater.
A. fewer, more B. more, less C. less, more D.many, much

The correct answer given is C.

Technique for choosing the right answer:-
B) & D) are definitely out as the second part points to lesser meat being taken.
That will leave us with A or C for the MORE in the latter part of the answer.
The correct answer given is C).

Why FEWER VEGETABLES is wrong?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dragn



Joined: 17 Feb 2009
Posts: 450

PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Why FEWER VEGETABLES is wrong?


It isn't. In fact, it is the more grammatically correct answer of the two, and probably the form preferred by most native speakers. You certainly will hear native speakers use both; however, if pressed, most native speakers would concede that fewer is the better answer. Vegetables is a plural, countable noun here...that's what the word fewer is for. Less is supposed to be for uncountable (and thus singular) nouns.

*FEWER THINGS--LESS STUFF* is normally the way to go.

Greg
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
monicashen



Joined: 27 Apr 2009
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:12 am    Post subject: My worries Reply with quote

Thanks Greg for the quick answer.

What I worry most is the multiple choice question is from mainland China where quality control is a problem.

They could have printed the wrong answer or there was simply a matter of commitment in designing the question.

Based on your answer, I must say that they should change the answer set slightly to avoid that confusion, even though the question was set anyhow to test the usage of FEWER or LESS.

Without someone there to provide a solution, many students or teachers could be burning unnecessary energy or arguing about picking up the right answer.

I am more than relaxed now having secured a satisfactory answer.

Thanks again.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dragn



Joined: 17 Feb 2009
Posts: 450

PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can assure you that here in Taiwan English textbooks are routinely full of mistakes and various Chinglistic oddities...although I admit it has improved a lot in the last decade or so. I have several private students who teach junior high and high school English, and it frequently falls to me to referee squabbles over screwy test questions.

Anyway, I have no reason to believe that China is a great deal better. Sometimes it reminds me of the Bible verse about the blind leading the blind. Rolling Eyes

Greg
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pugachevV



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 2295

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But, a vegetarian might think that B. was the best answer - more veg less meat
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
redset



Joined: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 582
Location: England

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pugachevV wrote:
But, a vegetarian might think that B. was the best answer - more veg less meat


Harder to find fat vegetarians though!

Just to weigh in here, dragn's completely right about the informal usage, even when people know fewer is correct for uncountable nouns, but there's another possibility. Vegetables could be considered an uncountable noun in this sense, because a comparison is being made between amounts of one type of food (meat) and another (vegetable matter). It's not the number of vegetables that's important here - you could swap five peas for one carrot and although there would be fewer actual vegetables on the plate, you'd have 'more vegetables' in your diet, if you see what I mean.

So I think there are a couple of semantic possibilities and in that light, A and C could be considered correct. The problem is that we don't have an uncountable noun for vegetables in a culinary sense as far as I know - just things like 'vegetation' (sounds like you're a botanist) or 'vegetable matter' (not very appetising!), but we still need a way of talking about it. I'm not sure if strict formal rules would flinch from it though.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
monicashen



Joined: 27 Apr 2009
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 5:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting discussion on this VEGETABLE stuff. In everyday use, nobody cares really what one uses - few or less.

However, when it comes to a grammar question in a test when you need to return only one answer, it is tough.

I pity the students, who are not mature enough to appreciate our discussion here.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
redset



Joined: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 582
Location: England

PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Honestly if it's a grammar test that's meant to illustrate the basic usage, it's a bad question - especially considering which answer they marked as correct!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Help Center All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Dave's ESL Cafe is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Banner Advertising | Bookstore / Alta Books | FAQs | Articles | Interview with Dave
Copyright © 2018 Dave's ESL Cafe | All Rights Reserved | Contact Dave's ESL Cafe | Site Map

Teachers College, Columbia University: Train to Teach English Here or Abroad
SIT
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group