Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums

[ddsony]

I don't know whether to choose Me or Mine. PLS help.

[redset]

The same height as me.

This might be slightly tricky at first - in your sentence you're comparing the girl with yourself, based on height. Mine would mean 'my height', and it wouldn't make sense to compare a person with a measurement! Comparing two measurements, though, would be fine:

The girl was the same height as me - comparing the girl and me based on height.
The girl's height was the same as mine - comparing the girl's height and my height directly.

Another way to look at it is through the ways we can usually make comparisons:

The girl is taller than me
The girl is the same height as me
The girl is smaller than me

See how the two nouns being compared are always the same? You're basically saying 'here is a thing, here is another thing, I'm going to compare them based on some common attribute'. The girl is taller than mine, for example, doesn't make sense - taller than my what? Even if you know it means 'my height', you can't compare a person with a number. Numbers don't have heights!

We can use mine when the comparison makes sense though:

Your car is faster than mine
Your car is as fast as mine
Your car is slower than mine

Here mine implies my car, so the comparison is between two cars, based on their speed. In fact, your sentence implies something similar - 'there stood a girl, the same height as (my girl)', simply because it makes sense that way.

[pugachevV]

To be grammatically correct it should read, "The same height as I".

[redset]

[pugachevV]

Grammar, surely, is formal?

[redset]

Depends if we're being descriptivist or prescriptivist . I'm only talking about the tone though, and I don't think many people would consider using the object form as incorrect - informal yes, and I'd recommend as I am if someone needs a more formal construction.

I'm just not sure how much value there is in considering a form which is rarely used anymore as 'the correct one'.

[pugachevV]

We are presumably trying to help foreign students with the correct use of English?
Grammar is essential to the correct usage of English - when you know it you can experiment with all kinds of uneducated, but amusing variations, if you feel so inclined.
I realise that nowadays you can string words together with no regard as to correct grammar and in certain quarters of our laissez-faire educational institutions it will be accepted. It is ironic, that the UK, which gave its citizens universal free education, and the world English, is one of the worst offenders.

[redset]

Well I don't want to get into an argument on this forum - all I'm saying is that the object form is in very widespread informal use, and the same goes for the subject+verb form in more formal situations. Personally I feel it's more helpful to students to explain how English is conventionally spoken, than to only teach a convention which most native speakers generally wouldn't use. It's definitely useful to explain other forms which exist, but I still think it's important to point out how and when they would (or wouldn't) be used.

[pugachevV]

I agree with you that the use of "me" rather than the correct "I" is widespread. That is because teachers do not correct such misuse, even in English classes, with the result that many native English speakers simply don't know what the correct form is.
Grammar has rules, to be literate, you need to know them.

[dragn]

[pugachevV]

I'm quite sure both Faulkner and Safire knew when to use "I", or "me" correctly.
If they chose to do otherwise, was done deliberately.
If you are learning any foreign language, you need to know what the correct form is before you prove your coolness and erudition by molesting the language like the locals.
In any case, I had to bust my a s s to learn all this crap so I don't see why anybody else should get away with it.
Jeez - me want cookie.

[dragn]

[CP]

I have to agree with PugachevV. We might as well give the grammatically correct answer, which will always be right on a test and in real life, even if some people think it sounds stiff or overly formal. It's a beautiful language, after all.

When I hear someone say, "I ax them why they wear they hair that way," my ears hurt, even though I know exactly what he or she means. How hard is it to say it the right way and avoid the wincing--not to mention the possible miscommunication?

And Dragn, thanks for not rolling your eyes. I appreciate it.
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