Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums

[hooray]

are these sentences right?

I have my hair permed today.
I thought it looked good on me, so I'm very happy now.

Thank you.

[pugachevV]

I have my hair permed today.

This sentence is correct. It implies that you have an appointment to have your hair permed today, later on.

If you have already had your hair permed, you would say, "I had my hair permed today."

I thought it looked good on me, so I'm very happy now.

Is correct.

[You thought it looked good on you, (earlier time) so you are happy now.(present time)]

[marksesl]

"I have my hair permed today" would not make much sense in most conversations. Compare, "I have my contacts in today." While you can remove your contacts, you cannot unperm you hair; so, talking about one's hair being permed "today" is a contradiction to the idea of a permanent being somewhat permanent. It also certainly does not suggest that you are going to get your hair permed later in the day, as the previous person suggested. For that meaning a person would have to say, "I'm going to have my hair permed today."

A person might say "My hair is permed," (with no "today") for a statement in the present tense, but it's most likely that a person would just say, "I had my hair permed. How do you like it?"

--Mark McDowell
_________________
Visit Mark's ESL World for many ESL resources.

[pugachevV]

When a woman says she is having her hair permed she is referring to a process carried out at the hairdressing salon (or wherever).
So she can say " I have my hair permed, today," referring to the appointment at a later time today, just as you can say, "I have my car serviced today."
I agree most people would say, "I'm having my hair permed today" but the sentence, as written, is correct English and does make sense.
Presumably it was given as an answer to a question set in class and so, God knows what the teacher was trying to elicit, as there is no context.

[Corey]

[marksesl]

Dear pugachevV,

The sentences read:
"I have my hair permed today.
I thought it looked good on me, so I'm very happy now."

The second sentence clearly shows that the event has already taken place. With that in mind the first sentence must read: "I had my hair permed today" for the two to work properly together. It's just a very simple grammar test to see if the student knows the difference between "have" and "had." The student is supposed to say "'have' is incorrect and should be 'had.'" It's nothing as esoteric as you're making it out to be.

As far a using "have" to refer to the future, I see that one could say "I have my English test today," or "I have an appointment to have my hair permed today," but "I have my hair permed today" makes no sense to me, nor does "I have my car repaired today;" that should be "I'm having my car repaired today." One can "have" a noun, but using "have" to mean the future in other instances is really trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. You might be able to make it work if you keep pounding on it long enough, but it really isn't common or useful English to teach to a non-native speaker -- and it's definitely not what the teacher was trying to teach.

--Yours truly, Mark McDowell
http://marksesl.com
_________________
Visit Mark's ESL World for many ESL resources.

[pugachevV]

Mark, you are right. I had overlooked the second part, which gives the context.
It was careless of me and I apologise.

[obelix]

I think you can say "I have my car serviced on Thursdays, but I have my hair permed today."
Why is it wrong, oh, sir, please, sir?

[marksesl]

Dear Obelix,

There is nothing wrong with your first sentence, since it is a repeated action: "Thursdays." That is typical of present tense and is in fact its most common usage.

However the second sentence does not indicate a repeated action; it's just "today."

"Have" is a present tense verb, therefore it is used for repeated actions (like your example) or states of being. "I have my hair permed every month" or "I have a hair perm" ("I have a permanent.").

The most correct future form is "I'm going to have my hair permed today," the shorted form is "I'm having my hair permed today;" using present progressive for future is quite common and that's as far as you can go. You can't go further and leave out the "am" and leave off the "-ing."

You can use "have" for the future if it is follow by a noun, because then the verb "have" indicates a state of being: "I have a hair perm today" (No "-ed" ) (It is my present circumstance that I need to go to my appointment for a hair perm). Likewise, you could say: "I have my English test today," or "I have a doctor's appointment today." Using "my" instead of "a" in such sentences just indicates that the person you are talking to is someone that you have spoken to before about the situation: "a" is indefinite, while "my" is definite.

Sorry, but "I have my hair permed today" just doesn't fly as talking about the future, because its verb just isn't in a "future" tense verb form; it's in a present tense form and this sentence does not indicate a repeated act. In additon, if the sentence is thought of as meaning the present, it's ok as a state of being, but just sounds a little uncomfortable because one's perm should last longer than a day.

Sincerely, Mark McDowell
http://marksesl.com
_________________
Visit Mark's ESL World for many ESL resources.

[obelix]

Dear Mark,

Thanks for conclusively demonstrating the benefits of an expensive education. No doubt your parents thought you were just chasing girls and going to frat parties.
How wrong they were.

All the best,
Obelix

[marksesl]

Dear Obelix,

Now that my expensive education is over I do attend more to chasing girls.

I would like to mention that there are instances where a pure verb can be used for future tense: when I said you can't drop the am or -ing I meant it can't be done in accordance with the "rules." One could certainly say "I get paid today," which is probably more common than saying "I'm going to get paid today." One might also say "I can't see you tomorrow, because I fly to Seoul in the morning." We must understand the distinction between rules and common usage, and there are all kinds of "usage" that breaks the rules. These things can be difficult to teach, because they occur on a on-by-one basis. While I might be able to say "I fly to Seoul tomorrow,� I could never say, "I eat a hamburger tomorrow," or "I see a move tomorrow." Odd permutations are things that ESL student eventually will grasp, but things that should probably be avoided being taught too early on, so as to not confuse students.


--Mark
Oh! and visit my site at http://marksesl.com
_________________
Visit Mark's ESL World for many ESL resources.

[obelix]

Mark,
I had a look at your web site and was very impressed. It should be very useful to anyone looking for help with English.
I am interested to know if you did it all yourself or whether it was professionally set up?
In either case, congratulations!
Regards,
Obelix.

[marksesl]

Thank you very much for the compliments.

I began the site about two years ago as a personal home page at Geocities. When I went commercial I copied some of the html code to my new web host. I then studied the html code until I understood the basics and just continued on my own. What you see now is nearly 100% hand made by yours truly with only small remnants of it's birth at Geo.

Now just tell me how I can get the same traffic Dave gets and I'll be happy.

--Mark
_________________
Visit Mark's ESL World for many ESL resources.

[obelix]

Mark,
I ran a search on "Google" (my favourite) using search word "ESL" Dave's ESL came up at the top of page 1. Yours came up on page 7 of about 186,000 hits.
Most people looking for something do not usually bother searching far, if they find something that looks OK in the first page of hits.

It may be that something as simple as calling your site "AAA ESL" would increase the traffic.

I like Dave's old format better than his new one, incidentally.

Regards,
Obelix