Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums

[Machjo]

You can find more information at:
http://www.espero.com.cn/uk2004/c01b.htm
http://www.elerno.net/
http://www.verdapekino.com/

I like languages, but it seems that as the world gets smaller, the hegemonizing tendencies of the larger languages is now threatening the very existence of smaller languages, sometimes resulting in language conflict as well. Many native languages in the Americas, Europe, Africa and Australasia are being threatened by the intrusion of larger languages.

And sometimes even larger languages themselves are being threatened by even larger languages, such as French by English in Quebec, or some of the minority languages in France, Spain and other nations by the national languages. Language conflict has also contributed to a deadly conflict in the Sudan, and increased linguistic segregation and animosity in Cameroon, as well.

Language conflict seems to be rising in our beloved China as well. I remember strolling through the Uighur part of Urumqi one day and, asking a Uighur woman for the price of a product in Putonghua, her first responce, likewise in Putonghua, was, "Why are you speaking 'Hanyu'? Can't you speak Uighur?"

Lately, some Chinese scholars, such as Prof. Liu Haitao of the Beijing Broadcasting University, have expressed concern over the hegemonic influence of the English language on the Chinese language as well. And his concerns has likewise started to be expressed by others in the government government.

I believe that the adoption, or creation, of an easy to learn universal auxiliary language and script would be beneficial to the protection of minority languages and the stabilization of interlanguage relations in the increasingly global community of mankind. This would allow all to people to preserve their native language while at the same time be able to fully benefit from globalization on an equal footing with the learning of an easy to learn common second language which would therefore not threaten the native language. In this way language rights, as a fundamental part of human rights, could be fully implemented.

[wolfstone]

Language has always been the companion of the empire.

Is there some empire which wants to promote Esperanto?

[asterix]

If you learn a language like French, you know that if you go to France you will be able to speak to the people who live there. But where do you go to speak Esperanto?

[Bob S.]

[Machjo]

I speak it with Chinese and foreign friends, and communicate with others via e-mail. I also know some friends here who have entered the tourism industry or do other business in Esperanto. I also attended the 89th Universal Congress of Esperanto just last month in Beijing, and there were people attending from all over China, including Inner Mongolians, Tibetans and Hongkongese, not to mention others from over 50 differnet countries, including Afghanistan (Thanks to the "Language of Peace" project, which you could look up in Google if you're interested).

[ClarissaMach]

Machjo,
I liked your pool but I think the options you've offered were too narrow. I believe a language is not a mechanical tool; it must be connected to a culture, to a way of living. To which culture is esperanto connected? No one, as far as I'm concerned. And the pleasure of learning a foreign language, I believe, comes from learning about the culture that that language represents.

I've learned English at an Institution named "English Culture". It was wonderful, because we not only learned the language, but also about historical and cultural aspects of UK.

The predominance of a language is directly connected with international economy, I believe. As the English-speaking countries have business relationships with almost all the other countries in the world, it happened to be the the most widespread language. Besides, English is one of the most basic languages in the world. It doesn't ask for more than 3 years to understand everything an English speaker says.

According to UNESCO, in the next 50 years this situation will change. The languages of the future will be Spanish, Arabic and Mandarim. Thanks God Spanish is very easy to learn for a Portuguese native speaker like me! Cause I think that Arabic and Mandarim are really difficult languages to learn! It would take me more than five years to take hold of an elementary conversation in both languages.

Other languages I consider very hard to learn are Russian and Germany. This last one, I believe, is a language so "brain-demanding" that it has shaped the minds of some of the most intelligent personalities of the world: Albert Einstein, Immanuel Kant, Joseph Kafka, Nietzsche....

Portuguese is not that easy either: I bet you won't figure out what is written below even if you have the help of a electronic translator like http://world.altavista.com/:

"O b�-a-b� de Cam�es deveras revira o ju�zo de muitos; que, a debru�arem-se sobre questi�nculas minuciosas da matem�tica das letras - vulgo, gram�tica -, vagam noites a fio, em meio a veleios e devaneios, a conjecturar sobre a desvairada dan�a que bailam as palavras".
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Stormy Weather.

[jarczis]

esparanto is from poland did you heard about or you think that germany is everything good and poland bad.Respect for you .Wish you luck.Maybe you also think that oswiecim is polish camp.Fu.k you it was built by germany.Do you have any objection ?

[jarczis]

y0u are really realyynot inteligent einstein was jewish nietsche had polish heritage kant was teaching in our territory and kafka was a cehoslovakian you must learn much more and please dont make false informations on forum. hehe if kavka was more inteligent rhan schopenhauer it could mean that i am you.For example the best german players klose was polish guy and the most husband and tallented young guy podolsky is also from poland.Novitzki has polish granparents.Shocked? I think you should be

[ieltsinsider]

Jarczis - You've made some good posts before, but these two here go a little too far. Clarissa was talking about the language, not the nationality. She didn't suggest that everything from Germany was good and/or that everything from Poland was bad.

Her point is that the people mentioned (Einstein, Kafka, Kant, Nietzsche, wrote/spoke in German. Comments about Oswiecim and the footballers are irrelevant.

[Bob S.]

It looks like someone's been drinking too much while sitting at his computer.

[ClarissaMach]

Wow, Jarczis, I'm sorry, but I don't understand why you're being so touchy about this language thing. In fact, I didn't know Esperanto had been created by a Polish (was it?). You talk like I had something against Poland; to be honest with you, I don�t know much about your country.

Einstein was Jewish, so what? Were he a Muslim, or a Catholic, or a Protestant, would it have made any difference? I was talking about his mother tongue, not his religion. The man was a genius in my humble opinion, and this is what matters.

Nietzsche had Polish heritage, Kafka was Tchekoslovakian, and so what? I thought both had written their works in German; did I say something wrong? If I did, go ahead and correct me, I have no problems with that. I�ve learned a lot in this forum thanks to people who corrected me when I was wrong.

By the way, although I�m not among Schopenhauer�s biggest fans, I have nothing against his work.

I know the Polishes have a problem with Germans due to things that happened during the Second World War, like what happened in Oświęcim. A friend of mine who happens to be grandson of a Polish told me once that his grandpa even forbade him from learning German! But I have nothing to do with that. I like the German language and I�m looking forward to learning it. Does it make me a Hitler? Come on! I�ll put a clearer picture of mine and you�ll understand I could never defend Nazi ideas!
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Stormy Weather.

[jarczis]

woow heh what's a joke that somebody wrote about alcohol.Ok now i Understand you.girl from Brazil.Whats a pity i dont know almost anything about brazil.Obviously iknow yours football and volleyball and one guy from nba greeting.HEH when you will be in germany i almost sure you will i invite you to poland and i dont think about oswiecim we have safe and nice country.

[CP]

I have to agree with Clarissa M. about learning culture along with the language. Esperanto, as brilliant a language as it is, is unconnected to any specific place, time, culture, people. When I took Latin in high school, we learned the language and the culture of the Romans, with the history of ancient Greece and Rome thrown in. Now I am taking German, and we are learning about German culture as well as the grammar and vocabulary of the language.

(One of my classmates is a Pole, by the way, and we have discussed how complex and difficult Polish is to learn -- he actually said that it was easy to learn English after growing up speaking Polish. German is a little harder than English.)

But, Jarczis, when you wrote to Clarissa M. "Maybe you also think that oswiecim is polish camp.Fu.k you it was built by germany.Do you have any objection ?" -- that was way out of line. This is not a place to be cursing people! I can hardly believe that she apologized to you and not the other way around. I think you owe her one.

Of course no one here believes that Auschwitz was built by anyone but the Nazis. And if anyone did think that, you would get a lot more respect by explaining it to the person than by using an offensive epithet to a nice, intelligent, and thoughtful young lady.
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You live a new life for every new language you speak. -Czech proverb

[jarczis]

by using coarse words i only wanted to move on our forum:) Recently uor media show that really almost evrybody abroad think that it was our camps not nasi.CP please don,t fawn to her

[CP]

I was expressing my opinion, not fawning on Clarissa M.

I still think you owe her an apology. Your reason for using vulgar language is no excuse.
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You live a new life for every new language you speak. -Czech proverb