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river1974



Joined: 20 May 2003
Posts: 525
Location: Taiwan

PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 8:52 pm    Post subject: that Reply with quote

Dear teachers:

In the radio set, what actually happens is that turning the tuning knob lengthens or shortens the electron path inside the radio.

Could I omit "that" in the above?

Thanks.
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bud



Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 2111
Location: New Jersey, US

PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm pretty sure it's ok.
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TALA



Joined: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 52

PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm wondering whethere there is a rule of omitting "that"? Can "that" alway be omitted?
Like, I know that he keeps a pet dog. I think that we can omit that, right?
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bud



Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 2111
Location: New Jersey, US

PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know of a rule, but that doesn't mean there isn't a rule... But no, sometimes it is needed... You are correct that it can be deleted in your example.

I learned years ago in a business writing class that "that" can very often be eliminated in sentences such as these. (I think it is necessary in this sentence.) Eliminating the unnecessary ones makes for much less monotonous writing. (I doubt my own approach is very useful for ESL: I eliminate it and then judge whether or not the sentence "sounds" correct.)
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river1974



Joined: 20 May 2003
Posts: 525
Location: Taiwan

PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The fact that he has fully recovered makes me feel good. (noun+that)

In the above, could "that" be omitted?
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river1974



Joined: 20 May 2003
Posts: 525
Location: Taiwan

PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just found another example regarding the "noun+that" construction as follows.

As you have been informed by the Notification *that* the captioned application has entered into the substantive examination procedures from now on,...

Could "that" be omitted?

Thanks.
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bud



Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 2111
Location: New Jersey, US

PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2005 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Both of them are tough calls, River. I'm really not sure about either of them.

Quote:
The fact that he has fully recovered makes me feel good. (noun+that)


My guess is probably not.

Quote:
As you have been informed by the Notification *that* the captioned application has entered into the substantive examination procedures from now on,...


Again, I think probably not.

Sorry I can't be more of more help.
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river1974



Joined: 20 May 2003
Posts: 525
Location: Taiwan

PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you bud. I've checked the grammar reference and found "that" here in my examples is used as an "appositive". Maybe in such usage, "that" could not be omitted. (just my conjecture)
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bud



Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 2111
Location: New Jersey, US

PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We've already exceeded my knowledge on this topic much earlier in the thread! Laughing

Good work, River!
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